This seems disingenuous. It looks like you’re saying, essentially, “Ah, but nothing
has inherent meaning!”. Are you unable to understand the concept of “manipulation”
in non-technical terms?
I think it is useful to compare/contrast the terms manipulation and influence. Barry Cotter did talk about a “continuum of influence”, and I think this is the point that you’re missing. Between two people, if one person is far more influential in their relationship than the other, then we call it manipulative. But there is an area in the middle of the continuum where their influence on each other isn’t one-sided.
I don’t know a whole lot about the whole PUA thing, but of the things I’ve read here and there online, one interesting point is that sexual attraction isn’t this innate thing that you either have or don’t have. So yeah, you can influence other people by presenting yourself in a more appealing way. But this shouldn’t be seen as “manipulation”, unless you’re doing something underhanded.
But if we’re going to exaggerate all influence by calling it manipulation, then we have an extremely inhibited view of society. A society where members didn’t influence each other could hardly be considered a society at all.
Certainly, I agree with this. But there are prominent pickup techniques that are manipulative and undesirable—you know, stuff like undermining someone’s self-esteem. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m using “manipulative” to refer to these “bad influences” or, if you prefer, “Dark Arts”.
Edit: Or, in other words, I’m not exaggerating all influence by calling it manipulation—I’m using the word to refer to basically the same thing you are (“influence other people by… doing something underhanded”).
I think it is useful to compare/contrast the terms manipulation and influence. Barry Cotter did talk about a “continuum of influence”, and I think this is the point that you’re missing. Between two people, if one person is far more influential in their relationship than the other, then we call it manipulative. But there is an area in the middle of the continuum where their influence on each other isn’t one-sided.
I don’t know a whole lot about the whole PUA thing, but of the things I’ve read here and there online, one interesting point is that sexual attraction isn’t this innate thing that you either have or don’t have. So yeah, you can influence other people by presenting yourself in a more appealing way. But this shouldn’t be seen as “manipulation”, unless you’re doing something underhanded.
But if we’re going to exaggerate all influence by calling it manipulation, then we have an extremely inhibited view of society. A society where members didn’t influence each other could hardly be considered a society at all.
Certainly, I agree with this. But there are prominent pickup techniques that are manipulative and undesirable—you know, stuff like undermining someone’s self-esteem. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m using “manipulative” to refer to these “bad influences” or, if you prefer, “Dark Arts”.
Edit: Or, in other words, I’m not exaggerating all influence by calling it manipulation—I’m using the word to refer to basically the same thing you are (“influence other people by… doing something underhanded”).