[I had mistakenly replied to my own post instead of yours. ]
Yes, giving (or not giving) someone the benefit of the doubt
It shouldn’t be about him, it should be about his post. Maybe he’s in league with Lucifer too, but that doesn’t make any of his posts any more true or false.
you’ll probably guess that for whatever reason they’re having a bad day. Whereas if someone whose contributions you regard as generally useless posts something stupid-looking you’ll probably just think “oh yeah, them again”. And there’s nothing wrong with any of that.
If having a bad day means writing a bad post, then you get a downvote.
You’re just letting your prior on the person determine your vote. Which you say you disapprove of.
Yes, it is a violation of the professed norms around here to vote something down just because you disapprove of its author’s views.
a (larger) few are really offended by it,
I’m not really big on giving offense utility monsters a veto. Once you pay the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane.
People are offended at PUA. Do they really not comprehend that plenty of people find their views offensive in turn? Just as everyone is the hero in their own story, there’s a pretty good chance you’re the villain in the stories of a lot of other people.
But I admit that’s something of the clash of civilizations going on here. Many people feel that their group’s “offense” should tally up in the utility machine, and they should thereby get their way. I don’t.
where it doesn’t belong
So it doesn’t belong in the Open Thread?
Anyway: as I say, I think it’s a shame if something gets a huge pile of negative karma merely for being politically unpopular. But unacceptable or inconsistent with professed norms hereabouts? No, I don’t think so.
You just said:
Yes, it is a violation of the professed norms around here to vote something down just because you disapprove of its author’s views.
It shouldn’t be about him, it should be about his post.
When a post is somewhat ambiguous, it’s reasonable to consider its context. That includes considering who posted it and what their likely reasons were. (Because it influences what is likely to happen in the ensuing discussion, if any.)
I’m not really big on giving offense utility monsters a veto.
Just as well no one suggested that, then. If you’re suggesting that I am proposing giving offense utility monsters a veto, then I politely request that you reread the whole of the sentence from which you quoted eight words and reconsider what might be leading you to misinterpret so badly. (Incidentally: Kipling reference noted.)
Do they really not comprehend that plenty of people find their views offensive in turn?
I don’t see any reason to think otherwise. If someone came along who only wanted to talk about how awful the PUA crowd is, and wedged complaints about that into discussions in which they have no place, I don’t imagine that would be much more popular than advancedatheist’s alleged wedging of pro-PUA material into inappropriate contexts.
So it doesn’t belong in the Open Thread?
I think you are mixing levels here. I am not complaining about advancedatheist, I am commenting on philh’s complaints about him and on the parallels you’re drawing. The accusation being levelled at advancedatheist (or at least part of it) is that he tries to shove PUA advocacy into discussions of other things. If in fact all he’s been doing is saying “yay PUA” in top-level open thread comments, then it’s an unfair accusation (though I think “yay PUA” and “boo PUA” belong in LW open threads about as much as “yay President Obama” or “boo Manchester United Football Club”) but that’s an entirely separate question from whether there’s an inconsistency between complaining about Eugine Nier’s mass-downvoting and not complaining about the downvotes some of advancedatheist’s comments have received.
You just said: [...]
No contradiction. The distinction you may be missing is between “because you disapprove of its author’s views” and “because you disapprove of the views expressed in that comment”. If I post one comment saying “Adolf Hitler was an admirable leader and we should give his policies another try” and one saying “Kurt Goedel proved the relative consistency of CH with ZF by proving that CH is true in the constructible universe and that Con(ZF) implies Con(ZF & V=L)”, then it is a violation of local professed norms if the latter comment gets downvoted because the former is horrible, but not if the former one does.
[I had mistakenly replied to my own post instead of yours. ]
It shouldn’t be about him, it should be about his post. Maybe he’s in league with Lucifer too, but that doesn’t make any of his posts any more true or false.
If having a bad day means writing a bad post, then you get a downvote.
You’re just letting your prior on the person determine your vote. Which you say you disapprove of.
I’m not really big on giving offense utility monsters a veto. Once you pay the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane.
People are offended at PUA. Do they really not comprehend that plenty of people find their views offensive in turn? Just as everyone is the hero in their own story, there’s a pretty good chance you’re the villain in the stories of a lot of other people.
But I admit that’s something of the clash of civilizations going on here. Many people feel that their group’s “offense” should tally up in the utility machine, and they should thereby get their way. I don’t.
So it doesn’t belong in the Open Thread?
You just said:
When a post is somewhat ambiguous, it’s reasonable to consider its context. That includes considering who posted it and what their likely reasons were. (Because it influences what is likely to happen in the ensuing discussion, if any.)
Just as well no one suggested that, then. If you’re suggesting that I am proposing giving offense utility monsters a veto, then I politely request that you reread the whole of the sentence from which you quoted eight words and reconsider what might be leading you to misinterpret so badly. (Incidentally: Kipling reference noted.)
I don’t see any reason to think otherwise. If someone came along who only wanted to talk about how awful the PUA crowd is, and wedged complaints about that into discussions in which they have no place, I don’t imagine that would be much more popular than advancedatheist’s alleged wedging of pro-PUA material into inappropriate contexts.
I think you are mixing levels here. I am not complaining about advancedatheist, I am commenting on philh’s complaints about him and on the parallels you’re drawing. The accusation being levelled at advancedatheist (or at least part of it) is that he tries to shove PUA advocacy into discussions of other things. If in fact all he’s been doing is saying “yay PUA” in top-level open thread comments, then it’s an unfair accusation (though I think “yay PUA” and “boo PUA” belong in LW open threads about as much as “yay President Obama” or “boo Manchester United Football Club”) but that’s an entirely separate question from whether there’s an inconsistency between complaining about Eugine Nier’s mass-downvoting and not complaining about the downvotes some of advancedatheist’s comments have received.
No contradiction. The distinction you may be missing is between “because you disapprove of its author’s views” and “because you disapprove of the views expressed in that comment”. If I post one comment saying “Adolf Hitler was an admirable leader and we should give his policies another try” and one saying “Kurt Goedel proved the relative consistency of CH with ZF by proving that CH is true in the constructible universe and that Con(ZF) implies Con(ZF & V=L)”, then it is a violation of local professed norms if the latter comment gets downvoted because the former is horrible, but not if the former one does.