Because women are perceived to be the weaker sex therefore it is rude to argue against them. Most people don’t want to be seen as rude, except actually rude people who don’t care. It doesn’t matter if MRM have a point, they will inevitably be both seen as rude and actually have a disproportionate number of rude people.
I think you’re correct about it being rude. More than rude, it’s a social taboo to criticize feminism. The statement “women are perceived to be the weaker sex” does not seem to generally apply. It’s more that we’ve internalized the more that “Anything that looks like an attack on the concept of equal rights is to be shunned.” That gets extrapolated to “Anything that looks like an attack on the tools we’ve used to get more equal rights should be shunned.” Note that the latter is not a position I endorse.
It’s complicated. To speculate, I’d say it’s a mix:
Different groups have different aims in discourse. The phrase “competing access needs” comes to mind; even when the ultimate goals of two groups are not different, the things they are trying to achieve at the object level are mutually exclusive. These groups are often bad at realizing when they’ve bumped into each other, and conflate each other with genuine opponents
Cultural mores against criticisms of equality, and therefore against criticisms of HOW we are getting equality
A flawed model of oppression
Typical mind fallacy
Identity groups and the tribal feelings they incite
More than rude, it’s a social taboo to criticize feminism.
The social taboo against criticizing feminism is built on the taboo against male violence against women. Note how readily some people label criticism or disagreement as “harrassment” and “violence”, or how women who disagree with feminism are erased from the debate—this is how the former gets labeled as the latter.
If we succeed to reframe the situation—if we see a man verbally disagreeing with a feminist, but our emotions correspond to “a strong man is beating a weak woman”—then the instinct to protect the woman gets activated.
At least it is my experience that in eyes of most observers I would lose any debate with a sufficiently skilled female feminist, because she could twist even the most polite verbal disagreement as “attacking her” simply by starting to cry. People pattern-match all the time. They see a man opposing a crying woman; their brains may try to analyze what happened, but their hearts already gave a clear verdict.
Yeah. I don’t know how to fix it, either, and it frustrates me (I also don’t know how to keep from perpetuating it, because I tend to cry during confrontations by default).
she could twist even the most polite verbal disagreement as “attacking her” simply by starting to cry.
Oh, but that’s when you can win by “gracefully conceding” the argument. You’re showing your own protective instinct, and everyone else can see that what you’re really doing is bowing out because having a proper debate is clearly not a possibility.
Well, in my social circles a woman who’d use crying as a way to win an argument would lose major status. “Now, now, dear, don’t worry your pretty little head about this” is something you don’t want to hear :-/
Because women are perceived to be the weaker sex therefore it is rude to argue against them. Most people don’t want to be seen as rude, except actually rude people who don’t care. It doesn’t matter if MRM have a point, they will inevitably be both seen as rude and actually have a disproportionate number of rude people.
I think you’re correct about it being rude. More than rude, it’s a social taboo to criticize feminism. The statement “women are perceived to be the weaker sex” does not seem to generally apply. It’s more that we’ve internalized the more that “Anything that looks like an attack on the concept of equal rights is to be shunned.” That gets extrapolated to “Anything that looks like an attack on the tools we’ve used to get more equal rights should be shunned.” Note that the latter is not a position I endorse.
It’s complicated. To speculate, I’d say it’s a mix:
Different groups have different aims in discourse. The phrase “competing access needs” comes to mind; even when the ultimate goals of two groups are not different, the things they are trying to achieve at the object level are mutually exclusive. These groups are often bad at realizing when they’ve bumped into each other, and conflate each other with genuine opponents
Cultural mores against criticisms of equality, and therefore against criticisms of HOW we are getting equality
A flawed model of oppression
Typical mind fallacy
Identity groups and the tribal feelings they incite
The social taboo against criticizing feminism is built on the taboo against male violence against women. Note how readily some people label criticism or disagreement as “harrassment” and “violence”, or how women who disagree with feminism are erased from the debate—this is how the former gets labeled as the latter.
If we succeed to reframe the situation—if we see a man verbally disagreeing with a feminist, but our emotions correspond to “a strong man is beating a weak woman”—then the instinct to protect the woman gets activated.
At least it is my experience that in eyes of most observers I would lose any debate with a sufficiently skilled female feminist, because she could twist even the most polite verbal disagreement as “attacking her” simply by starting to cry. People pattern-match all the time. They see a man opposing a crying woman; their brains may try to analyze what happened, but their hearts already gave a clear verdict.
Yeah. I don’t know how to fix it, either, and it frustrates me (I also don’t know how to keep from perpetuating it, because I tend to cry during confrontations by default).
Oh, but that’s when you can win by “gracefully conceding” the argument. You’re showing your own protective instinct, and everyone else can see that what you’re really doing is bowing out because having a proper debate is clearly not a possibility.
Well, in my social circles a woman who’d use crying as a way to win an argument would lose major status. “Now, now, dear, don’t worry your pretty little head about this” is something you don’t want to hear :-/