I think you are laboring under a slight misapprehension about personality research. Myers-Briggs isn’t solid science. The eneagram isn’t solid science.
Your understanding is consistent with mine. Myers-Briggs is really frustrating, because some of its ideas are anecdotally compelling (Introversion vs. Extraversion, Thinking vs. Feeling), while others are esoteric (Judging vs. Perceiving and Sensing vs. Intuition). At least on the types, INTP probably refers to a real phenotype (which is common on LW), but I don’t know if any of the other type combinations are real.
Interestingly, the MBTI seems to almost reduce down to the Big Five according to this study.
Big five personality traits are kind of like that. From what I’ve read, they’re better understood as mostly-orthogonal surface regularities with causal explanations from many different levels and sources rather than as fundamental causally coherent essences. Lots of people seem to expect human traits to coherently cause human behaviors, so it is worth emphasizing how liable such thinking is to produce error.
The way I’ve heard it explained goes something like this: “you don’t like art because you are high in Openness. You are high in Openness because you like art.”
Of course, since the Openness scale has reliability, you can make predictions about how someone would respond to one question from the scale if you know what they would respond to another item. Whether that’s because of one underlying trait, or because of a bunch of converging traits, is an empirical question.
At least on the types, INTP probably refers to a real phenotype (which is common on LW), but I don’t know if any of the other type combinations are real.
Just wondering, are you generally classified as INTP? I’ve noticed that people consistently put in one of the types are more likely to think that their type is real.
Like wedrifid, I test as an ENFP on online tests, but if I answer questions like I would have if I hadn’t learned social skills, I come out as an INTP. The INTP profile I mentioned is freakily accurate, and not just in a horoscope type of way.
No. It compresses into 4 bits plus a whole bunch of extraneous knowledge of humanity and the environment. Sure, you can say it compresses down to four bits so long as you consider the language itself to already know all the basics about humans and the difference between the this and the other 15 combinations.
Some parts more than others I expect. Each of the details is supposed to be considered separately and with an “are more likely to” attached rather than a strict conjugation.
The interesting question is how many compressed bits the 4 bits convey. I’m guessing about 3.
Just wondering, are you generally classified as INTP? I’ve noticed that people consistently put in one of the types are more likely to think that their type is real.
At a guess yes, Hugh strikes me as someone who is naturally ‘INTP’ like. But the thing with the way the Myers Briggs test questions is that personal ideology and learned skills have rather too much influence. ie. Last time I did one of those tests I came out as ENFP. Which I’m definitely not, and wouldn’t have got if I didn’t answer the questions strictly literally.
At least on the types, INTP probably refers to a real phenotype (which is common on LW)
Myers-Briggs ultimately derives from the psychodynamic theories of Carl Jung, who was himself an INTP. Thus, it makes sense that INTP roughly corresponds to an actual personality type; Jung simply described himself, and then turned to his existing theories to explain away why he was the way he was.
Of course, since the Openness scale has reliability, you can make predictions about how someone would respond to one question from the scale if you know what they would respond to another item.
And this is the central point of the whole thing. They aren’t meant to represent a deep meaningful biological reality. Just clear correlations that are useful.
Your understanding is consistent with mine. Myers-Briggs is really frustrating, because some of its ideas are anecdotally compelling (Introversion vs. Extraversion, Thinking vs. Feeling), while others are esoteric (Judging vs. Perceiving and Sensing vs. Intuition). At least on the types, INTP probably refers to a real phenotype (which is common on LW), but I don’t know if any of the other type combinations are real.
Interestingly, the MBTI seems to almost reduce down to the Big Five according to this study.
The way I’ve heard it explained goes something like this: “you don’t like art because you are high in Openness. You are high in Openness because you like art.”
Of course, since the Openness scale has reliability, you can make predictions about how someone would respond to one question from the scale if you know what they would respond to another item. Whether that’s because of one underlying trait, or because of a bunch of converging traits, is an empirical question.
Just wondering, are you generally classified as INTP? I’ve noticed that people consistently put in one of the types are more likely to think that their type is real.
Like wedrifid, I test as an ENFP on online tests, but if I answer questions like I would have if I hadn’t learned social skills, I come out as an INTP. The INTP profile I mentioned is freakily accurate, and not just in a horoscope type of way.
Wow! All that compresses down to just four bits!
No. It compresses into 4 bits plus a whole bunch of extraneous knowledge of humanity and the environment. Sure, you can say it compresses down to four bits so long as you consider the language itself to already know all the basics about humans and the difference between the this and the other 15 combinations.
I can’t see 16 such highly detailed descriptions covering more than a small fraction of humanity.
Nu, with horoscopes each of 12 descriptions cover all of humanity!
Some parts more than others I expect. Each of the details is supposed to be considered separately and with an “are more likely to” attached rather than a strict conjugation.
The interesting question is how many compressed bits the 4 bits convey. I’m guessing about 3.
At a guess yes, Hugh strikes me as someone who is naturally ‘INTP’ like. But the thing with the way the Myers Briggs test questions is that personal ideology and learned skills have rather too much influence. ie. Last time I did one of those tests I came out as ENFP. Which I’m definitely not, and wouldn’t have got if I didn’t answer the questions strictly literally.
Myers-Briggs ultimately derives from the psychodynamic theories of Carl Jung, who was himself an INTP. Thus, it makes sense that INTP roughly corresponds to an actual personality type; Jung simply described himself, and then turned to his existing theories to explain away why he was the way he was.
And this is the central point of the whole thing. They aren’t meant to represent a deep meaningful biological reality. Just clear correlations that are useful.