To me, the idea of eliminating an entire species of insect that is part of a complex system sounds reckless. The consequences cannot be predicted and we continue the trend of destroying rather than adapting. Not to mention that DNA is complex in its own right and we cannot predict the consequences of introducing mutations at a faster rate than “nature” has stabilized coping with.
The objective is not to eliminate malaria, really; it’s to eliminate the disease that is caused by malaria, for which there are many approaches that do not require messing with large ecosystems, such as improving the resistance of victims or keeping mosquitoes at a distance (heck, if we are determined to introduce mutations, why not add one that causes the mosquitoes to dislike a particular smell, for example, and then make towns smell like that? It would be less destructive, although still subject to the unpredictability of messing with DNA).
(Note that even in the article you share about mosquitoes not being ecologically important there is didn’t among the experts)
Humans have driven to extinction tens of thousands of species, and continue to kill more every year. Whilst mostly bad, very few of them have had terrible impacts on the ecosystem.
To then hyperfocus on one particular species, specifically one which kills hundreds of thousands of people each year, is essentially an isolated demand for rigour. If we wanted to reduce our impact on the ecosystem let’s focus instead on saving some of the species that don’t cause extreme human suffering.
Much of the environmental destruction is directly caused by people living in unwealthy nations, as a way of trying to produce wealth. Elephant poaching and rainforest slash and burn are examples. Alleviating a major source of misery will probably help these countries become more economically successful. It will save ecosystem diversity on net.
But enormous resources are already used destroying local mosquito populations. In many countries water in swamps is covered with a layer of oil to stop mosquitos breeding in it. Helicopters and planes I think sometimes spray insecticides over forests. In Singapore and parts of Malaysia these kinds of measures have successfully eliminated the local mosquitos.
A gene drive might be cheaper and more effective (and with less side effects) than blanketing the water with oil and the air with insecticides.
Malaria deaths are a crazy high number. How bad would the ecological side-effects need to be to make it not worthwhile?
if we are determined to introduce mutations, why not add one that causes the mosquitoes to dislike a particular smell, for example, and then make towns smell like that
Why would you expect those mutations to spread?
Note that even in the article you share about mosquitoes not being ecologically important there is didn’t among the experts
The question is not about whether or not mosquitoes in general are ecologically important but whether if you get rid of less than 0.1% of the mosquito species, the niches covered by them are not just filled by other mosquitos.
It does sound reckless doesn’t it? Even more so when you consider that over time you would likely have to eliminate many species of mosquito, not just one to achieve the effect you desire. And, as the linked nature article noted, this could have knock on effects on other species which prey on mosquitos.
I think your comment is important, because this is probably the heart of the objection to using gene drives to exterminate mosquitos.
I think a few points are relevant in thinking about this objection:
(1) We already take steps to reduce mosquito populations, which are successful in wealthier countries.
(2) This shows the limited ecological effects of eliminating mosquitos.
(3) The existing efforts are not narrowly targeted. Eliminating malaria and other disease causing mosquitos would enable these other efforts to stop, possibly reducing overall ecological effects.
(4) Malaria is a major killer and there are other mosquito borne diseases. If you are looking at this from a human-centered perspective, the ecological consequences would have to be clear and extreme to conclude that this step shouldn’t be taken and the consequences don’t appear to be clear or extreme. (If there is another perspective you are looking at this from, I’d be happy to consider it.)
(5) Humanity is doing its best to eradicate Guinea worm to universal praise. It’s a slow process. Would you suggest reversing it? Why are mosquitos and Guinea worms different?
To me, the idea of eliminating an entire species of insect that is part of a complex system sounds reckless. The consequences cannot be predicted and we continue the trend of destroying rather than adapting. Not to mention that DNA is complex in its own right and we cannot predict the consequences of introducing mutations at a faster rate than “nature” has stabilized coping with.
The objective is not to eliminate malaria, really; it’s to eliminate the disease that is caused by malaria, for which there are many approaches that do not require messing with large ecosystems, such as improving the resistance of victims or keeping mosquitoes at a distance (heck, if we are determined to introduce mutations, why not add one that causes the mosquitoes to dislike a particular smell, for example, and then make towns smell like that? It would be less destructive, although still subject to the unpredictability of messing with DNA).
(Note that even in the article you share about mosquitoes not being ecologically important there is didn’t among the experts)
Humans have driven to extinction tens of thousands of species, and continue to kill more every year. Whilst mostly bad, very few of them have had terrible impacts on the ecosystem.
To then hyperfocus on one particular species, specifically one which kills hundreds of thousands of people each year, is essentially an isolated demand for rigour. If we wanted to reduce our impact on the ecosystem let’s focus instead on saving some of the species that don’t cause extreme human suffering.
Much of the environmental destruction is directly caused by people living in unwealthy nations, as a way of trying to produce wealth. Elephant poaching and rainforest slash and burn are examples. Alleviating a major source of misery will probably help these countries become more economically successful. It will save ecosystem diversity on net.
But enormous resources are already used destroying local mosquito populations. In many countries water in swamps is covered with a layer of oil to stop mosquitos breeding in it. Helicopters and planes I think sometimes spray insecticides over forests. In Singapore and parts of Malaysia these kinds of measures have successfully eliminated the local mosquitos.
A gene drive might be cheaper and more effective (and with less side effects) than blanketing the water with oil and the air with insecticides.
Malaria deaths are a crazy high number. How bad would the ecological side-effects need to be to make it not worthwhile?
Why would you expect those mutations to spread?
The question is not about whether or not mosquitoes in general are ecologically important but whether if you get rid of less than 0.1% of the mosquito species, the niches covered by them are not just filled by other mosquitos.
It does sound reckless doesn’t it? Even more so when you consider that over time you would likely have to eliminate many species of mosquito, not just one to achieve the effect you desire. And, as the linked nature article noted, this could have knock on effects on other species which prey on mosquitos.
I think your comment is important, because this is probably the heart of the objection to using gene drives to exterminate mosquitos.
I think a few points are relevant in thinking about this objection:
(1) We already take steps to reduce mosquito populations, which are successful in wealthier countries.
(2) This shows the limited ecological effects of eliminating mosquitos.
(3) The existing efforts are not narrowly targeted. Eliminating malaria and other disease causing mosquitos would enable these other efforts to stop, possibly reducing overall ecological effects.
(4) Malaria is a major killer and there are other mosquito borne diseases. If you are looking at this from a human-centered perspective, the ecological consequences would have to be clear and extreme to conclude that this step shouldn’t be taken and the consequences don’t appear to be clear or extreme. (If there is another perspective you are looking at this from, I’d be happy to consider it.)
(5) Humanity is doing its best to eradicate Guinea worm to universal praise. It’s a slow process. Would you suggest reversing it? Why are mosquitos and Guinea worms different?
Fair points made, will take them and ponder.