Ohhhhhhh, do you mean 2d as in 2 degrees of freedom? I mean it as in spatial coordinates.
As an aside, I just realized that “displacement” is more accurate for what I’m getting at than “distance”. The thing I’m talking about can be negative.
And distance/displacement isn’t between equivalent utility functions, it’s between two outcomes in one utility function. “X is 5 tasty sandwiches better than Y” is what I’m referring to as a displacement.
And the displacement numbers will be the same for the entire equivalence class, which is why I prefer it to picking one of the equivalent functions out of a hat. If you only ever talk about measured distances, there is only one utility function in the equivalence class, because all the scales and shifts cancel out:
This way, the utility function can scale and shift all it wants, and my numbers will always be the same. Equivalently, all agents that share my preferences will always agree that a day as a whale is “400 orgasms better than a normal day”, even if they use another basis themselves.
Was that less clear than I thought?
If there are only two points in a space, you can’t get a relative distance because there’s nothing to make the distance relative to. For that problem I would define U(heads) = 1 and U(tails) = 0, as per my dimensionless scheme.
Ohhhhhhh, do you mean 2d as in 2 degrees of freedom? I mean it as in spatial coordinates.
What’s the difference?
And distance/displacement isn’t between equivalent utility functions, it’s between two outcomes in one utility function. “X is 5 tasty sandwiches better than Y” is what I’m referring to as a displacement.
Your use of the word “in” here disagrees with my usage of the word “utility function.” Earlier you said something like “a utility function is a space” and I defined “utility function” to mean “equivalence class of functions over outcomes,” so I thought you were referring to the equivalence class. Now it looks like you’re referring to the space of (probability distributions over) outcomes, which is a different thing. Among other things, I can talk about this space without specifying a utility function. A choice of utility function allows you to define a ternary operation on this space which I suppose could reasonably be called “relative displacement,” but it’s important to distinguish between a mathematical object and a further mathematical object you can construct from it.
Your use of the word “in” here disagrees with my usage of the word “utility function.”
Yes, it does. You seem to understand what I’m getting at.
it’s important to distinguish between a mathematical object and a further mathematical object you can construct from it.
I don’t think anyone is making mathematical errors in the actual model, we are just using different words which makes it impossible to communicate. If you dereference my words in your model, you will see errors, and likewise the other way.
Is there a resource where I could learn the correct terminology?
I don’t think anyone is making mathematical errors in the actual model, we are just using different words which makes it impossible to communicate. If you dereference my words in your model, you will see errors, and likewise the other way.
Yep.
Is there a resource where I could learn the correct terminology?
My conventions for describing mathematical objects comes from a somewhat broad range of experiences and I’m not sure I could recommend a specific resource that would duplicate the effect of all of those experiences. Recommending a range of resources would entail learning much more than just a few conventions for describing mathematical objects, and you may not feel that this is a good use of your time, and I might agree. I can at least broadly indicate that some useful mathematical subjects to read up on might be real analysis and topology, although most of the content of these subjects is not directly relevant; what’s relevant is the conventions you’ll pick up for describing mathematical objects.
Sometime soon I might write a Discussion post about mathematics for rationalists which will hopefully address these and other concerns.
Ohhhhhhh, do you mean 2d as in 2 degrees of freedom? I mean it as in spatial coordinates.
As an aside, I just realized that “displacement” is more accurate for what I’m getting at than “distance”. The thing I’m talking about can be negative.
And distance/displacement isn’t between equivalent utility functions, it’s between two outcomes in one utility function. “X is 5 tasty sandwiches better than Y” is what I’m referring to as a displacement.
And the displacement numbers will be the same for the entire equivalence class, which is why I prefer it to picking one of the equivalent functions out of a hat. If you only ever talk about measured distances, there is only one utility function in the equivalence class, because all the scales and shifts cancel out:
Was that less clear than I thought?
If there are only two points in a space, you can’t get a relative distance because there’s nothing to make the distance relative to. For that problem I would define U(heads) = 1 and U(tails) = 0, as per my dimensionless scheme.
What’s the difference?
Your use of the word “in” here disagrees with my usage of the word “utility function.” Earlier you said something like “a utility function is a space” and I defined “utility function” to mean “equivalence class of functions over outcomes,” so I thought you were referring to the equivalence class. Now it looks like you’re referring to the space of (probability distributions over) outcomes, which is a different thing. Among other things, I can talk about this space without specifying a utility function. A choice of utility function allows you to define a ternary operation on this space which I suppose could reasonably be called “relative displacement,” but it’s important to distinguish between a mathematical object and a further mathematical object you can construct from it.
Yes, it does. You seem to understand what I’m getting at.
I don’t think anyone is making mathematical errors in the actual model, we are just using different words which makes it impossible to communicate. If you dereference my words in your model, you will see errors, and likewise the other way.
Is there a resource where I could learn the correct terminology?
Yep.
My conventions for describing mathematical objects comes from a somewhat broad range of experiences and I’m not sure I could recommend a specific resource that would duplicate the effect of all of those experiences. Recommending a range of resources would entail learning much more than just a few conventions for describing mathematical objects, and you may not feel that this is a good use of your time, and I might agree. I can at least broadly indicate that some useful mathematical subjects to read up on might be real analysis and topology, although most of the content of these subjects is not directly relevant; what’s relevant is the conventions you’ll pick up for describing mathematical objects.
Sometime soon I might write a Discussion post about mathematics for rationalists which will hopefully address these and other concerns.
Upvoted for promise of Mathematics for Rationalists.