I have a bit harsher filter than a number of prolific users of Less Wrong, I think—I would, pace Blueberry, like to see discussion of polyamory here only if you can explain how to imply the insights to other fields as well. I would be interested in the material, but I don’t think this is the context for the merely interesting.
The post I’m envisioning is less an analysis of polyamory as a lifestyle and more about what I’m tentatively calling the monogamy bias. While the science isn’t quite there (I think; I need to do more research on the topic) to argue that a bias towards monogamy is built into human brain chemistry, it’s certainly built into (Western) society. My personal experience has been that overcoming that bias makes life much more fun, so I’d probably end up talking about how to analyze whether monogamy is something a person might actually want.
The other LW topic that comes out of polyamory is the idea of managing romantic jealousy, which ends up being something of a necessity. Depending on how verbose I get, those may or may not get combined into a single post.
In any case, would either of those pass your (or more general) filters?
I certainly find quality discussions about such topics interesting and worthwhile, and consistent with the mission statement of advancing rationality and overcoming bias, but I’m not sure if the way you define your proposed topic is good.
Namely, you speak of the possibility that “bias towards monogamy is built into human brain chemistry,” and claim that this bias is “certainly built into (Western) society.” Now, in discussing topics like these, which present dangerous minefields of ideological biases and death-spirals, it is of utmost importance to keep one’s language clear and precise, and avoid any vague sweeping statements.
Your statement, however, doesn’t make it clear whether you are talking about a bias towards social norms encouraging (or mandating) monogamy, or about a bias towards monogamy as a personal choice held by individuals. If you’re arguing the first claim, you must define precisely the metric you use to evaluate different social norms, which is a very difficult problem. If you’re arguing the second one, you must establish which precise groups of people your claim applies to, and which not, and what metric of personal welfare you use to establish that biased decisions are being made. In either case, it seems to me that establishing a satisfactory case for a very general statement like the one you propose would be impossible without an accompanying list of very strong disclaimers.
Therefore, I’m not sure if it would be a good idea to set out to establish such a general and sweeping observation, which would, at least to less careful readers, likely be suggestive of stronger conclusions than what has actually been established. Perhaps it would be better to limit the discussion to particular, precisely defined biases on concrete questions that you believe are significant here.
I think I grouped my ideas poorly; the two kinds of bias you point out would be better descriptions of the two topics I’m thinking of writing about. (And they definitely seem to be separate enough that I shouldn’t be writing about them in the same post.) So, to clarify, then:
Topic 1: Individuals in industrialized cultures (but the U.S. more strongly than most, due to religious influence) very rarely question the default relationship style of monogamy in the absence of awareness of other options, and usually not even then. This is less of a bias and more of a blind spot: there are very few people who are aware that there are alternatives to visible monogamy. Non-consensual non-monogamy (cheating) is, of course, something of a special case. I’m not sure if there’s an explicit “unquestioned assumptions that rule large aspects of your life” category on LW, but that kind of material seems to be well-received. I’d argue that there’s at least as much reason to question the idea that “being monogamous is good” as the idea that “being religious is good.” Of course my conclusions are a little different, in that one’s choice of relationship style is ultimately a utilitarian consideration, whereas religion is nonsense.
Topic 2: Humans have a neurological bias in favor of (certain patterns of behavior associated with) monogamy. This would include romantic jealousy, as mentioned. While the research in humans is not yet definitive, there’s substantial evidence that the hormone vasopressin, which is released into the brain during sexual activity, is associated with pair-bonding and male-male aggression. In prairie voles, vasopressin production seems to be the sole factor in whether or not they mate for life. Romantic/sexual jealousy is a cultural universal in humans, and has no known purpose other than to enforce monogamous behavior. So there are definitely biological factors that affect one’s reasoning about relationship styles; it should be obvious that if some people prefer to ignore those biological factors, they see some benefit in doing so. I can say authoritatively that polyamory makes me happier than monogamy does, and I am not so self-absorbed as to think myself alone in this. Again, this is a case where at least some people can become happier by debiasing.
And that still leaves Topic 3: jealousy management, which I imagine would look something like the sequence on luminosity or posts on akrasia (my personal nemesis).
Thanks for your comment; it’s really helped me clarify my organizational approach.
Let me give an example of a topic that I think would pass my filter: establish that there is a bias (i.e. erroneous heuristic) toward monogamy, reverse-engineer the bias, demonstrate the same mechanisms working in other areas, and give suggestions for identifying other biases created by the same mechanism.
Let me give an example of a topic that I think would not pass my filter: establish that there is a bias towards monogamy, demonstrate the feasibility and desirability of polygamy, and offer instructions on how to overcome the bias and make polyamory an available and viable option.
The first is clearly about rational choices, psychological and social biases and the balance of incorporating existing instincts and overriding them with optimizations. That is right on topic so stop asking for permission and approval and go for it. Anything to do with social biases will inevitably have some people disapproving of it. That is how social biases get propagated! Here is not the place to be dominated by that effect.
As for the romantic jealousy thing… I don’t see the relevance to rationality myself but if you think it is an effective way to demonstrate some rationalist technique or concept then go for it.
Hello! I like your blog.
I have a bit harsher filter than a number of prolific users of Less Wrong, I think—I would, pace Blueberry, like to see discussion of polyamory here only if you can explain how to imply the insights to other fields as well. I would be interested in the material, but I don’t think this is the context for the merely interesting.
The post I’m envisioning is less an analysis of polyamory as a lifestyle and more about what I’m tentatively calling the monogamy bias. While the science isn’t quite there (I think; I need to do more research on the topic) to argue that a bias towards monogamy is built into human brain chemistry, it’s certainly built into (Western) society. My personal experience has been that overcoming that bias makes life much more fun, so I’d probably end up talking about how to analyze whether monogamy is something a person might actually want.
The other LW topic that comes out of polyamory is the idea of managing romantic jealousy, which ends up being something of a necessity. Depending on how verbose I get, those may or may not get combined into a single post.
In any case, would either of those pass your (or more general) filters?
I certainly find quality discussions about such topics interesting and worthwhile, and consistent with the mission statement of advancing rationality and overcoming bias, but I’m not sure if the way you define your proposed topic is good.
Namely, you speak of the possibility that “bias towards monogamy is built into human brain chemistry,” and claim that this bias is “certainly built into (Western) society.” Now, in discussing topics like these, which present dangerous minefields of ideological biases and death-spirals, it is of utmost importance to keep one’s language clear and precise, and avoid any vague sweeping statements.
Your statement, however, doesn’t make it clear whether you are talking about a bias towards social norms encouraging (or mandating) monogamy, or about a bias towards monogamy as a personal choice held by individuals. If you’re arguing the first claim, you must define precisely the metric you use to evaluate different social norms, which is a very difficult problem. If you’re arguing the second one, you must establish which precise groups of people your claim applies to, and which not, and what metric of personal welfare you use to establish that biased decisions are being made. In either case, it seems to me that establishing a satisfactory case for a very general statement like the one you propose would be impossible without an accompanying list of very strong disclaimers.
Therefore, I’m not sure if it would be a good idea to set out to establish such a general and sweeping observation, which would, at least to less careful readers, likely be suggestive of stronger conclusions than what has actually been established. Perhaps it would be better to limit the discussion to particular, precisely defined biases on concrete questions that you believe are significant here.
I think I grouped my ideas poorly; the two kinds of bias you point out would be better descriptions of the two topics I’m thinking of writing about. (And they definitely seem to be separate enough that I shouldn’t be writing about them in the same post.) So, to clarify, then:
Topic 1: Individuals in industrialized cultures (but the U.S. more strongly than most, due to religious influence) very rarely question the default relationship style of monogamy in the absence of awareness of other options, and usually not even then. This is less of a bias and more of a blind spot: there are very few people who are aware that there are alternatives to visible monogamy. Non-consensual non-monogamy (cheating) is, of course, something of a special case. I’m not sure if there’s an explicit “unquestioned assumptions that rule large aspects of your life” category on LW, but that kind of material seems to be well-received. I’d argue that there’s at least as much reason to question the idea that “being monogamous is good” as the idea that “being religious is good.” Of course my conclusions are a little different, in that one’s choice of relationship style is ultimately a utilitarian consideration, whereas religion is nonsense.
Topic 2: Humans have a neurological bias in favor of (certain patterns of behavior associated with) monogamy. This would include romantic jealousy, as mentioned. While the research in humans is not yet definitive, there’s substantial evidence that the hormone vasopressin, which is released into the brain during sexual activity, is associated with pair-bonding and male-male aggression. In prairie voles, vasopressin production seems to be the sole factor in whether or not they mate for life. Romantic/sexual jealousy is a cultural universal in humans, and has no known purpose other than to enforce monogamous behavior. So there are definitely biological factors that affect one’s reasoning about relationship styles; it should be obvious that if some people prefer to ignore those biological factors, they see some benefit in doing so. I can say authoritatively that polyamory makes me happier than monogamy does, and I am not so self-absorbed as to think myself alone in this. Again, this is a case where at least some people can become happier by debiasing.
And that still leaves Topic 3: jealousy management, which I imagine would look something like the sequence on luminosity or posts on akrasia (my personal nemesis).
Thanks for your comment; it’s really helped me clarify my organizational approach.
Several of us have enough trouble forming and maintaining even a single romantic relationship. :(
Perhaps you should pay an agent to give you random chances at prizes in exchange for reported social interactions with eligible women.
My sarcasm detector is broken. :P
Let me give an example of a topic that I think would pass my filter: establish that there is a bias (i.e. erroneous heuristic) toward monogamy, reverse-engineer the bias, demonstrate the same mechanisms working in other areas, and give suggestions for identifying other biases created by the same mechanism.
Let me give an example of a topic that I think would not pass my filter: establish that there is a bias towards monogamy, demonstrate the feasibility and desirability of polygamy, and offer instructions on how to overcome the bias and make polyamory an available and viable option.
Does that make sense?
The first is clearly about rational choices, psychological and social biases and the balance of incorporating existing instincts and overriding them with optimizations. That is right on topic so stop asking for permission and approval and go for it. Anything to do with social biases will inevitably have some people disapproving of it. That is how social biases get propagated! Here is not the place to be dominated by that effect.
As for the romantic jealousy thing… I don’t see the relevance to rationality myself but if you think it is an effective way to demonstrate some rationalist technique or concept then go for it.