I generally expect that people who make an effort to be X will subsequently report that being X improves their life, whether we’re talking about “convert to Christianity” or “convert to Islam” or “deconvert from Christianity” or “deconvert from Islam.”
Interesting—the flip side is “the grass is always greener.” I am not at all surprised that other effects dominate sometimes, or even a good deal of the time, however.
People can identify as Christian while being confused about what that means.
Can you clarify? Is it your claim that these “confused” Christians are the only ones who experience improved lives upon deconversion? Or did you mean something else?
I’m saying people can believe that they are Christians, go to church, pray, believe in the existence of God and still be wrong about fundamental points of doctrine like “I require mercy, not sacrifice” or the two most important commands, leading to people who think being Christian means they should hate certain people. There are also people who conflate tradition and divine command, leading to groups that believe being Christian means following specific rules which are impractical in modern culture and not beneficial. I expect anyone like that to have an improved quality of life after they stop hating people and doing pointless things. I expect a quality of life even better than that if they stop doing the bad stuff but really study the Bible and be good people, with the caveat that quality of life for those people could be lowered by persecution in some times and places. (They could also end up persecuted for rejecting it entirely in other times and places. Or even the same ones.)
Basically, yeah, only if they’ve done something wrong in their interpretation of Scripture will they like being atheists better than being Christians.
My brain is interpreting that as “well, TRUE Christians wouldn’t be happier/better if they deconverted.” How is this not “No True Scotsman”?
Would you say you are some variety of Calvinist? I’m guessing not, since you don’t sound quite emphatic enough on this point. (For the Calvinist, it’s point of doctrine that no one can cease being a Christian—they must not have been elect in the first place. I expect you already know this, I’m saying it for the benefit of any following the conversation who are lucky enough to not have heard of Calvinism. Also, lots of fundamentalist leaning groups (e.g., Baptists) have a “once saved always saved” doctrine.)
I hope I’m not coming off confrontational; I had someone IRL tell me I must never have been a real christian not too long ago, and I found it very annoying—so I may be being a bit overly sensitive.
And I left stuff out here that was in the first.
Short version: unsurprising because of things like this. People can identify as Christian while being confused about what that means.
Surprising. My model takes a hit here. Do you have links to firsthand accounts of this?
I’m surprised by your surprise.
I generally expect that people who make an effort to be X will subsequently report that being X improves their life, whether we’re talking about “convert to Christianity” or “convert to Islam” or “deconvert from Christianity” or “deconvert from Islam.”
Interesting—the flip side is “the grass is always greener.” I am not at all surprised that other effects dominate sometimes, or even a good deal of the time, however.
Can you clarify? Is it your claim that these “confused” Christians are the only ones who experience improved lives upon deconversion? Or did you mean something else?
I’m saying people can believe that they are Christians, go to church, pray, believe in the existence of God and still be wrong about fundamental points of doctrine like “I require mercy, not sacrifice” or the two most important commands, leading to people who think being Christian means they should hate certain people. There are also people who conflate tradition and divine command, leading to groups that believe being Christian means following specific rules which are impractical in modern culture and not beneficial. I expect anyone like that to have an improved quality of life after they stop hating people and doing pointless things. I expect a quality of life even better than that if they stop doing the bad stuff but really study the Bible and be good people, with the caveat that quality of life for those people could be lowered by persecution in some times and places. (They could also end up persecuted for rejecting it entirely in other times and places. Or even the same ones.)
Basically, yeah, only if they’ve done something wrong in their interpretation of Scripture will they like being atheists better than being Christians.
My brain is interpreting that as “well, TRUE Christians wouldn’t be happier/better if they deconverted.” How is this not “No True Scotsman”?
Would you say you are some variety of Calvinist? I’m guessing not, since you don’t sound quite emphatic enough on this point. (For the Calvinist, it’s point of doctrine that no one can cease being a Christian—they must not have been elect in the first place. I expect you already know this, I’m saying it for the benefit of any following the conversation who are lucky enough to not have heard of Calvinism. Also, lots of fundamentalist leaning groups (e.g., Baptists) have a “once saved always saved” doctrine.)
I hope I’m not coming off confrontational; I had someone IRL tell me I must never have been a real christian not too long ago, and I found it very annoying—so I may be being a bit overly sensitive.
Explained here. Tell me if that’s not clear.
Um… not exactly?
I was familiar with the concept, but not its name.
You’re not, but I live by Crocker’s Rules anyway.