How does one go about doing that? I can tell whether I have a plan to prevent a bad thing or deal with its consequences, and whether I’m repressing thoughts of bad things happening, encouraging them, or letting them happen, but I’m not sure how I know I’ve come to terms with something.
Well… It’s hard to explain. I’ve never managed to “just tell” someone and have them pick it up—despite trying. I’ve always had to guide them through one so that they feel the difference between what they were doing and what I was getting at. I was mostly just pointing it out for the extra motivation to “come to terms with it”—so that if/when you do bump into the option, you know to take it.
EDIT: My newer hack at the problem is mostly “just go read ‘focusing’ by Gendlin”, and then maybe get back to that routine.
Also, I didn’t actually create that routine—just that explanation of it. Credit goes to Joe Fobes for that. He knows his stuff when it comes to hypnosis and therapy and stuff.
Thanks! You’re right, I don’t get it. I do have questions, though:
How do you recognise success? I don’t think I could distinguish it from giving up or going numb.
What do endpoints look like? Like, can I answer “I wish he wasn’t going to die” with “Because then he won’t be alive and that’s bad, duh” or do I need to find some way to pick that apart?
How does looping back work? “Why do I wish he’d sign up for cryonics? Because if he doesn’t he will die. I wish he wasn’t going to die.” works, but I don’t know what to do with “Why am I even acknowledging things? Because jimmy said I’ll be more effective at preventing things if I come to terms with them”.
Damn! That’s a disappointing thing to be right about. I admire your continued curiosity on the topic.
How do you recognise success? I don’t think I could distinguish it from giving up or going numb.
For example, you’re probably not crying over not having a yacht to sail around on. Like, sure, it’d be nice, but of course you don’t have a yacht. It feels a lot like that. Someone that just spent all their money on one just to have it sink would be upset about it because they’re framing it differently. They’re “supposed to” have a yacht, and reality is violating their picture of what they “ought to” have. It’s about updating your picture to have it match reality again. Once it feels like there’s no way reality “could” be different, then there’s no more room for the ought-is divergence to cry about. Just of course it sank—that’s what yachts do when you run them into rocks. And of course I ran it into rocks, I was told it was clear. And of course I was told it was clear, Bob is incompetent, and I knew I was taking a risk when hiring him. It’s just all understood down to the level where it’s just not important enough to go into it. What am I gonna do? Wish that the known-incompetent bob magically got it right? How much sense does that make?
There’s no loss of motivation, just loss of distractions. If you want a yacht, fix it—it’s just no longer “this can’t have happened”, it’s “it did happen. Shrug”. It’s all pull motivation now, not a pushing motivation—which is good because things tend to buckle under compression loading anyway.
Perhaps more important is that it just feels right. With going “numb”, it’s like “I can’t let myself want because it hurts too much and I wish I didn’t have to bury this hurt”—we can do better than that. It’s kinda one of those “when you’re dreaming you don’t realize you’re dreaming, but when you’re awake you know you’re awake” things. You’ll know when you’re there. It’s not like “eh, am I doing it right? Is this how I “should” feel?”. It’s more like “ahhhhh… peace at last”. Just nothing else you could ask for. I mean, it’d be nice if it never sank, but I’m about as tempted to yearn for that as I am to go on wishing that 2+2=3 - because neither could conceivably happen without ignoring known facts. No more gap where you can wish it went the other way. And so now you can just focus where you need to, because it’s clear what you need to do and you’re on your way to doing it—and it’s the best outcome not ruled out by your understanding of the world.
What do endpoints look like? Like, can I answer “I wish he wasn’t going to die” with “Because then he won’t be alive and that’s bad, duh” or do I need to find some way to pick that apart?
Nah, that doesn’t sound like a good answer. The “uh.. Duh?” answer comes up when it seems implied that the asker doesn’t share the “it is bad” impression, but we’re after a different thing here. Regardless of whether we think it’s actually bad, we’re tracking down the particular reasons that have emotions attached. For example, “Because then his family won’t get to have him in their lives”, and “because I can’t have him in my life”. For me, those were both painful to acknowledge—the latter in particular.
How does looping back work? “Why do I wish he’d sign up for cryonics? Because if he doesn’t he will die. I wish he wasn’t going to die.” works, but I don’t know what to do with “Why am I even acknowledging things? Because jimmy said I’ll be more effective at preventing things if I come to terms with them”.
The “why?” doesn’t have to be all of the following questions—it’s just purposely vague so that you answer the one (or more) that feels important.
If you need to going down the “Why am I even acknowledging things?” path, that answer is fine, but not the end of the road. The next question is then “why do I even care what this ‘jimmy’ guy says!?”
How does one go about doing that? I can tell whether I have a plan to prevent a bad thing or deal with its consequences, and whether I’m repressing thoughts of bad things happening, encouraging them, or letting them happen, but I’m not sure how I know I’ve come to terms with something.
Well… It’s hard to explain. I’ve never managed to “just tell” someone and have them pick it up—despite trying. I’ve always had to guide them through one so that they feel the difference between what they were doing and what I was getting at. I was mostly just pointing it out for the extra motivation to “come to terms with it”—so that if/when you do bump into the option, you know to take it.
If you think you can be the exception, here’s my current hack at the problem
EDIT: My newer hack at the problem is mostly “just go read ‘focusing’ by Gendlin”, and then maybe get back to that routine.
Also, I didn’t actually create that routine—just that explanation of it. Credit goes to Joe Fobes for that. He knows his stuff when it comes to hypnosis and therapy and stuff.
Thanks! You’re right, I don’t get it. I do have questions, though:
How do you recognise success? I don’t think I could distinguish it from giving up or going numb.
What do endpoints look like? Like, can I answer “I wish he wasn’t going to die” with “Because then he won’t be alive and that’s bad, duh” or do I need to find some way to pick that apart?
How does looping back work? “Why do I wish he’d sign up for cryonics? Because if he doesn’t he will die. I wish he wasn’t going to die.” works, but I don’t know what to do with “Why am I even acknowledging things? Because jimmy said I’ll be more effective at preventing things if I come to terms with them”.
Damn! That’s a disappointing thing to be right about. I admire your continued curiosity on the topic.
For example, you’re probably not crying over not having a yacht to sail around on. Like, sure, it’d be nice, but of course you don’t have a yacht. It feels a lot like that. Someone that just spent all their money on one just to have it sink would be upset about it because they’re framing it differently. They’re “supposed to” have a yacht, and reality is violating their picture of what they “ought to” have. It’s about updating your picture to have it match reality again. Once it feels like there’s no way reality “could” be different, then there’s no more room for the ought-is divergence to cry about. Just of course it sank—that’s what yachts do when you run them into rocks. And of course I ran it into rocks, I was told it was clear. And of course I was told it was clear, Bob is incompetent, and I knew I was taking a risk when hiring him. It’s just all understood down to the level where it’s just not important enough to go into it. What am I gonna do? Wish that the known-incompetent bob magically got it right? How much sense does that make?
There’s no loss of motivation, just loss of distractions. If you want a yacht, fix it—it’s just no longer “this can’t have happened”, it’s “it did happen. Shrug”. It’s all pull motivation now, not a pushing motivation—which is good because things tend to buckle under compression loading anyway.
Perhaps more important is that it just feels right. With going “numb”, it’s like “I can’t let myself want because it hurts too much and I wish I didn’t have to bury this hurt”—we can do better than that. It’s kinda one of those “when you’re dreaming you don’t realize you’re dreaming, but when you’re awake you know you’re awake” things. You’ll know when you’re there. It’s not like “eh, am I doing it right? Is this how I “should” feel?”. It’s more like “ahhhhh… peace at last”. Just nothing else you could ask for. I mean, it’d be nice if it never sank, but I’m about as tempted to yearn for that as I am to go on wishing that 2+2=3 - because neither could conceivably happen without ignoring known facts. No more gap where you can wish it went the other way. And so now you can just focus where you need to, because it’s clear what you need to do and you’re on your way to doing it—and it’s the best outcome not ruled out by your understanding of the world.
Nah, that doesn’t sound like a good answer. The “uh.. Duh?” answer comes up when it seems implied that the asker doesn’t share the “it is bad” impression, but we’re after a different thing here. Regardless of whether we think it’s actually bad, we’re tracking down the particular reasons that have emotions attached. For example, “Because then his family won’t get to have him in their lives”, and “because I can’t have him in my life”. For me, those were both painful to acknowledge—the latter in particular.
The “why?” doesn’t have to be all of the following questions—it’s just purposely vague so that you answer the one (or more) that feels important.
If you need to going down the “Why am I even acknowledging things?” path, that answer is fine, but not the end of the road. The next question is then “why do I even care what this ‘jimmy’ guy says!?”