I have no idea whether anyone to speak of actually does consider George Washington Carver an important scientist, though the available evidence suggests he was a very clever guy. Neil deGrasse Tyson, so far as I know, isn’t considered important as a scientist by anyone, including himself, but he seems to me very obviously an outstanding popularizer of science on his own merits.
None of which is actually relevant to your remark about dancing bears. The point about the dancing bear, remember, is that it may be an absolutely hopeless dancer by the standards we usually use, and that the only thing interesting about it is that it’s astonishing that a bear can dance at all. Was George Washington Carver a hopeless scientist? Nope. Are black people so uniformly unintelligent that it’s astonishing that one can be a scientist at all? Nope. (Even on a stronger “race realist” position than seems to me in any way credible.)
Was George Washington Carver a hopeless scientist? Nope. Are black people so uniformly unintelligent that it’s astonishing that one can be a scientist at all? Nope.
We’re not talking about ability to do science, though. The question is which people should be considered notable, or unusually successful due to their achievements. And it’s rather obvious that, e.g. Norman Borlaug (considered by some as “agriculture’s greatest spokesperson”) is a lot more notable than G. Washington Carver. Indeed, if we’re looking for someone worthy of being compared with Albert Einstein or even Marie Curie, Borlaug seems especially appropriate.
I completely agree: George Washington Carver seems to have been a smart and interesting guy but doesn’t belong on any list of the world’s greatest scientists, and if some school textbook chooses him as one of a small number of scientists to profile then I bet it is indeed largely because he was black.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing. It would be bad if they claimed “here are three scientists of comparable greatness” (or “comparable prominence” or “comparable brainpower”) and then listed Einstein, Curie, and Carver. I haven’t seen those textbooks, but I’m guessing they didn’t. If they said “here are three scientists” (subtext: ”… whom you might want to use as role models if you’re that way inclined”) I don’t see a problem with that. (Eugine might, if he believes that black people’s statistical inferiority is so dramatic that as a group they should be systematically discouraged from getting into science.)
I haven’t seen those textbooks, but I’m guessing they didn’t. If they said “here are three scientists” (subtext: ”… whom you might want to use as role models if you’re that way inclined”) I don’t see a problem with that.
Perhaps, but I think this says more about subcultures in the U.S. than anything else. Do you think branco or moreno kids in Brazil would have any problem with adopting Pelé as a role model due to his significant African descent?
I don’t know enough about Brazilian society to have much idea about your final question. I expect your first sentence is right—it’s not hard to imagine variant societies in which being black is no obstacle to taking Einstein or Curie as a role model—but if that’s meant to make something I’ve said wrong, I’m not seeing why.
I have no idea whether anyone to speak of actually does consider George Washington Carver an important scientist, though the available evidence suggests he was a very clever guy. Neil deGrasse Tyson, so far as I know, isn’t considered important as a scientist by anyone, including himself, but he seems to me very obviously an outstanding popularizer of science on his own merits.
None of which is actually relevant to your remark about dancing bears. The point about the dancing bear, remember, is that it may be an absolutely hopeless dancer by the standards we usually use, and that the only thing interesting about it is that it’s astonishing that a bear can dance at all. Was George Washington Carver a hopeless scientist? Nope. Are black people so uniformly unintelligent that it’s astonishing that one can be a scientist at all? Nope. (Even on a stronger “race realist” position than seems to me in any way credible.)
We’re not talking about ability to do science, though. The question is which people should be considered notable, or unusually successful due to their achievements. And it’s rather obvious that, e.g. Norman Borlaug (considered by some as “agriculture’s greatest spokesperson”) is a lot more notable than G. Washington Carver. Indeed, if we’re looking for someone worthy of being compared with Albert Einstein or even Marie Curie, Borlaug seems especially appropriate.
I completely agree: George Washington Carver seems to have been a smart and interesting guy but doesn’t belong on any list of the world’s greatest scientists, and if some school textbook chooses him as one of a small number of scientists to profile then I bet it is indeed largely because he was black.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing. It would be bad if they claimed “here are three scientists of comparable greatness” (or “comparable prominence” or “comparable brainpower”) and then listed Einstein, Curie, and Carver. I haven’t seen those textbooks, but I’m guessing they didn’t. If they said “here are three scientists” (subtext: ”… whom you might want to use as role models if you’re that way inclined”) I don’t see a problem with that. (Eugine might, if he believes that black people’s statistical inferiority is so dramatic that as a group they should be systematically discouraged from getting into science.)
Perhaps, but I think this says more about subcultures in the U.S. than anything else. Do you think branco or moreno kids in Brazil would have any problem with adopting Pelé as a role model due to his significant African descent?
I don’t know enough about Brazilian society to have much idea about your final question. I expect your first sentence is right—it’s not hard to imagine variant societies in which being black is no obstacle to taking Einstein or Curie as a role model—but if that’s meant to make something I’ve said wrong, I’m not seeing why.