So you’ve listed a few topics. How likely is each of them to result in demon threads? I can easily see people furiously arguing about any of those, I doubt there is much variation between them. The fact that many people happen to have opinions on these topics (i.e. that they are common in CMV) seems more relevant than any reality-based measure of their importance. Consider also more niche topics such as “best programming language” that sometimes also result in demon threads (though, to be fair, I haven’t personally seen any recently), while having objectively no impact on the real world.
maybe almost everything really is about status
No, it’s not that everything is “about status”, it’s that “about status” is just an obtuse way to say “people care”. Every interaction between two people is by definition social, and LW is very happy to reduce all social interactions to status comparisons. But what exactly does that explain?
I can easily see people furiously arguing about any of those, I doubt there is much variation between them.
My prediction is that almost no discussion that starts about whether Donald Trump is 1.88m tall should turn into a demon thread, unless someone first changes the topic to something else.
Similarly, the details of climate change itself should start fewer object-level arguments. I would first expect to see a transition to (admitedly closely related) topics like climate change deniers and/or gullible liberals. Sure, people may then pull out the charts and links on the object level issue, but the subtext is then ”...and therefore the outgroup are idiots/the ingroup isn’t dumb”.
We could test this by seeing whether strict and immediate moderator action prevents demon threads if it’s done as soon as discussion drifts into inherently-about-status topics. I think if so, we could safely discuss status-adjacent topics without anywhere near as many incidents. (Although I don’t actually think there’s much value in such discussions most of the time, so I wouldn’t advocate for a rule change to allow them.)
no discussion that starts about whether Donald Trump is 1.88m tall should turn into a demon thread
Trump’s height is definitely not why “Donald Trump” is a common topic in CMV, so I don’t see how that’s relevant. On the other hand, such trivial fact based topics can easily become demonic—consider birtherism. If there was a subset of population that believed “Trump is actually 1.87m tall”, this could easily lead to demon threads. There is nothing inherent about height that prevents it from being a demon topic.
Similarly, the details of climate change itself should start fewer object-level arguments.
Object level disagreements about climate change are definitely a big part of why it’s a common topic and why it might cause demon threads. Of course, the argument eventually involves insulting the outgroup, but that’s hardly a topic.
We could test this by seeing whether strict and immediate moderator action prevents demon threads if it’s done as soon as discussion drifts into inherently-about-status topics
This is based on the assumption that some topics really are inherently about status. My claim is that topic popularity is a decent predictor of demonic threads, and that your status related evaluations add very little to that.
So you’ve listed a few topics. How likely is each of them to result in demon threads? I can easily see people furiously arguing about any of those, I doubt there is much variation between them. The fact that many people happen to have opinions on these topics (i.e. that they are common in CMV) seems more relevant than any reality-based measure of their importance. Consider also more niche topics such as “best programming language” that sometimes also result in demon threads (though, to be fair, I haven’t personally seen any recently), while having objectively no impact on the real world.
No, it’s not that everything is “about status”, it’s that “about status” is just an obtuse way to say “people care”. Every interaction between two people is by definition social, and LW is very happy to reduce all social interactions to status comparisons. But what exactly does that explain?
My prediction is that almost no discussion that starts about whether Donald Trump is 1.88m tall should turn into a demon thread, unless someone first changes the topic to something else.
Similarly, the details of climate change itself should start fewer object-level arguments. I would first expect to see a transition to (admitedly closely related) topics like climate change deniers and/or gullible liberals. Sure, people may then pull out the charts and links on the object level issue, but the subtext is then ”...and therefore the outgroup are idiots/the ingroup isn’t dumb”.
We could test this by seeing whether strict and immediate moderator action prevents demon threads if it’s done as soon as discussion drifts into inherently-about-status topics. I think if so, we could safely discuss status-adjacent topics without anywhere near as many incidents. (Although I don’t actually think there’s much value in such discussions most of the time, so I wouldn’t advocate for a rule change to allow them.)
Trump’s height is definitely not why “Donald Trump” is a common topic in CMV, so I don’t see how that’s relevant. On the other hand, such trivial fact based topics can easily become demonic—consider birtherism. If there was a subset of population that believed “Trump is actually 1.87m tall”, this could easily lead to demon threads. There is nothing inherent about height that prevents it from being a demon topic.
Object level disagreements about climate change are definitely a big part of why it’s a common topic and why it might cause demon threads. Of course, the argument eventually involves insulting the outgroup, but that’s hardly a topic.
This is based on the assumption that some topics really are inherently about status. My claim is that topic popularity is a decent predictor of demonic threads, and that your status related evaluations add very little to that.