Zen Buddhism is part of what Chapman calls consensus Buddhism. One of the key differences is that consensus Buddhism seeks the renunciation of the self while Tantra doesn’t.
Zen is not necessarily part of consensus Buddhism as it tends to be more serious and closer to monastic practice than what I tend to think of as the “consensus” folks who are more often part of something like Shambhala, Pure Land, or various westernized versions of Theravada traditions. Unfortunately zen is not so monolithic that I can say for sure that no zen would meet Chapman’s criteria for being part of the consensus.
Just like mindfulness meditation is a condensed version of Zen
My impression is that most mindfulness meditation draws more from yogacara and vipassana and the resemblance to zen practices is more coincidental than as a result of lineage. Of particular note is that there is little to no instruction provided for sitting zen—part of the practice is figuring out on your own how to sit—which seems quite different from what is often done in mindfulness practices.
As far as lineage goes, Jon Kabat-Zinn was very important for the secular mindfulness that we have as he standardized mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) and thus provided “science-backed” meditation and thus people who wanted to do science-based meditation oriented themselves on what Jon Kabat-Zinn standardized.
I’m not especially familiar with the history of MBSR. What I know more is that when I’ve seen self-described mindfulness practices presented they often rely more heavily on techniques I would associate with vipassana. Also you’re correct that Thien is the Vietnamese lineage of Chan Buddhism (Zen is the Japanese lineage of Chan, Keown is the Korean lineage, and Chan itself being the Chinese version started when Buddhism was brought to China), although each one is divergent enough in the specifics that it’s hard to say they are on-the-ground similar other than pulling from a common set of historical texts and practices. Given the high prevalence of Theravadic practice in south-east Asia, though, it doesn’t seem all that surprising to me that Thien practices might look a lot like the neighboring practices and maybe that’s what I’ve noticed.
To some extent yes, although as you note “seek” would be a weird word to use (at least within my own tradition of Soto Zen). Zen takes as fundamental the idea that you already have Buddha nature and through practice learn to awaken to it. Part of Buddha nature is dissolution of the self (the no-self), so awakening or bodhi involves experiencing the no-self, but at least within Soto there is not an attempt to attain no-self; instead it may be a consequence of practice or it may not. Other schools of Zen and Chan Buddhism might be more oriented towards the goal of renunciation of self, but Soto Zen is not.
Overall I enjoyed this, but two nits to pick:
Zen is not necessarily part of consensus Buddhism as it tends to be more serious and closer to monastic practice than what I tend to think of as the “consensus” folks who are more often part of something like Shambhala, Pure Land, or various westernized versions of Theravada traditions. Unfortunately zen is not so monolithic that I can say for sure that no zen would meet Chapman’s criteria for being part of the consensus.
My impression is that most mindfulness meditation draws more from yogacara and vipassana and the resemblance to zen practices is more coincidental than as a result of lineage. Of particular note is that there is little to no instruction provided for sitting zen—part of the practice is figuring out on your own how to sit—which seems quite different from what is often done in mindfulness practices.
As far as lineage goes, Jon Kabat-Zinn was very important for the secular mindfulness that we have as he standardized mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) and thus provided “science-backed” meditation and thus people who wanted to do science-based meditation oriented themselves on what Jon Kabat-Zinn standardized.
Wikipedia says about him:
“Kabat-Zinn was a student of Buddhist teachers such as Thich Nhat Hanh and Zen Master Seung Sahn and a founding member of Cambridge Zen Center.”
According to Wikipedia Thich Nhat Hanh comes from Vietnamese Thiền which is a school of Zen Buddhism.
Do you have a different idea of the history of mindfulness meditation?
I’m not especially familiar with the history of MBSR. What I know more is that when I’ve seen self-described mindfulness practices presented they often rely more heavily on techniques I would associate with vipassana. Also you’re correct that Thien is the Vietnamese lineage of Chan Buddhism (Zen is the Japanese lineage of Chan, Keown is the Korean lineage, and Chan itself being the Chinese version started when Buddhism was brought to China), although each one is divergent enough in the specifics that it’s hard to say they are on-the-ground similar other than pulling from a common set of historical texts and practices. Given the high prevalence of Theravadic practice in south-east Asia, though, it doesn’t seem all that surprising to me that Thien practices might look a lot like the neighboring practices and maybe that’s what I’ve noticed.
Thanks. Do you think it’s fair to say that Zen “seeks” renunciation of the self?
To some extent yes, although as you note “seek” would be a weird word to use (at least within my own tradition of Soto Zen). Zen takes as fundamental the idea that you already have Buddha nature and through practice learn to awaken to it. Part of Buddha nature is dissolution of the self (the no-self), so awakening or bodhi involves experiencing the no-self, but at least within Soto there is not an attempt to attain no-self; instead it may be a consequence of practice or it may not. Other schools of Zen and Chan Buddhism might be more oriented towards the goal of renunciation of self, but Soto Zen is not.