Hm. I see conformity as a factor that causes cults, not the other way around.
Most people don’t join cults because their friends, family, etc. would look at them funny (assuming their friends, family, etc. are not currently in cults). Conformity keeps people in cults, but I don’t think it causes people to join them. We might see people bouncing between a larger number of smaller cults.
Probably for high-IQ “nerds”, conformity is more frequently bad, because we’re often smarter than the people we’re considering whether to conform with, and therefore better equipped to make decisions.
Well, or so we tell ourselves. (It seems healthy to be generally suspicious of stories that make my tribe look good.) A more realistic story might be that “nerds” have atypical needs and so might need to manage their lives differently from what’s dictated by cultural norms.
Conformity keeps people in cults, but I don’t think it causes people to join them.
That’s not obvious to me at all… my rough (highly uninformed) model of how cult initiations work is that you get sucked in to a situation (e.g. Scientology “stress testing” or similar) where you’re forced to either not conform or join the cult. (Also fits my (very limited) observation of fraternity initiations.)
Well, or so we tell ourselves. (It seems healthy to be generally suspicious of stories that make my tribe look good.)
Just because a story is flattering to your group doesn’t mean it’s false. The research I’ve seen on the usefulness of high IQ for achieving desirable life outcomes has been pretty positive.
Personally, I think nerds are self-deprecating way beyond what’s justified by rationally looking at the data. I suspect this is due to school socialization effects (higher-IQ folks have a hard time finding cognitive peers, and therefore making friends, and therefore end up being lower status; I recommend this essay for more on this idea). Is it really so implausible that intelligent people would be better at stuff that requires thinking and decision-making? This conclusion almost seems like it would follow directly from the definition of general intelligence.
That’s not obvious to me at all… my rough (highly uninformed) model of how cult initiations work is that you get sucked in to a situation (e.g. Scientology “stress testing” or similar) where you’re forced to either not conform or join the cult. (Also fits my (very limited) observation of fraternity initiations.)
Also keep in mind that people who join cults are not a random sample of the population. It is generally believed that people who join cults are usually in some way social outcasts to begin with. Cults offer them the possibility of being part of a close-knit community. Traditional religions also offer that, but to a lesser extent.
Just because a story is flattering to your group doesn’t mean it’s false. The research I’ve seen on the usefulness of high IQ for achieving desirable life outcomes has been pretty positive.
References?
AFAIK, it is well established that IQ positively correlates with many performance metrics for levels of IQ around and below the average, while the correlation for above average IQ is more dubious. In fact, IQ tests were originally designed to detect underperforming individuals.
The correlation between an high IQ and being a “nerd” is also debatable, while, at least in some circles, nerds may have an high IQ, it doesn’t follow that many high-IQ people are nerds. Also note that the whole concept of being a “nerd” migh be largely the effect of conformity biases.
Some researchers claim “in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much.”[75][76]
Other studies show that ability and performance for jobs are linearly related, such that at all IQ levels, an increase in IQ translates into a concomitant increase in performance.[77] Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.[78]
Low IQ precludes you various job opportunities, while the correlation between high IQ and performace is more dubious, some studies show decreasing marginal value, other studies show linear correlation.
This means that certain groups of professionally successful people have higher than average IQ, not that many higher than average IQ people become more professionally successful than average people.
AFAIK, it is well established that IQ positively correlates with many performance metrics for levels of IQ around and below the average, while the correlation for above average IQ is more dubious.
That’s not obvious to me at all… my rough (highly uninformed) model of how cult initiations work is that you get sucked in to a situation (e.g. Scientology “stress testing” or similar) where you’re forced to either not conform or join the cult. (Also fits my (very limited) observation of fraternity initiations.)
Entirely possible. I’m not sure the fraternity analogy holds water; at many colleges I would expect the decision to seek out a fraternity (as opposed to the decision to join one) to be at least partially motivated by obtaining higher status, whereas joining a cult generally only gets you higher status among existing cult members. I’m working primarily off of Cultish Countercultishness, in particular this part:
There’s a legitimate reason to be less fearful of Libertarianism than of a flying-saucer cult, because Libertarians don’t have a reputation for employing sleep deprivation to convert people. But cryonicists don’t have a reputation for using sleep deprivation, either. So why be any more worried about having your head frozen after you stop breathing?
I suspect that the nervousness is not the fear of believing falsely, or the fear of physical harm. It is the fear of lonely dissent. The nervous feeling that subjects get in Asch’s conformity experiment, when all the other subjects (actually confederates) say one after another that line C is the same size as line X, and it looks to the subject like line B is the same size as line X. The fear of leaving the pack.
Your second point is also fair. What I think is implausible is that everyone who self-identifies as an intelligent nerd is actually intelligent. Maybe they only like thinking about nerdy topics but aren’t good at it and tell themselves a story about how they’re intelligent to fit in and maintain their self-image (being a dumb nerd sounds awful).
Most people don’t join cults because their friends, family, etc. would look at them funny (assuming their friends, family, etc. are not currently in cults). Conformity keeps people in cults, but I don’t think it causes people to join them. We might see people bouncing between a larger number of smaller cults.
Well, or so we tell ourselves. (It seems healthy to be generally suspicious of stories that make my tribe look good.) A more realistic story might be that “nerds” have atypical needs and so might need to manage their lives differently from what’s dictated by cultural norms.
That’s not obvious to me at all… my rough (highly uninformed) model of how cult initiations work is that you get sucked in to a situation (e.g. Scientology “stress testing” or similar) where you’re forced to either not conform or join the cult. (Also fits my (very limited) observation of fraternity initiations.)
Just because a story is flattering to your group doesn’t mean it’s false. The research I’ve seen on the usefulness of high IQ for achieving desirable life outcomes has been pretty positive.
Personally, I think nerds are self-deprecating way beyond what’s justified by rationally looking at the data. I suspect this is due to school socialization effects (higher-IQ folks have a hard time finding cognitive peers, and therefore making friends, and therefore end up being lower status; I recommend this essay for more on this idea). Is it really so implausible that intelligent people would be better at stuff that requires thinking and decision-making? This conclusion almost seems like it would follow directly from the definition of general intelligence.
Also keep in mind that people who join cults are not a random sample of the population. It is generally believed that people who join cults are usually in some way social outcasts to begin with. Cults offer them the possibility of being part of a close-knit community. Traditional religions also offer that, but to a lesser extent.
References?
AFAIK, it is well established that IQ positively correlates with many performance metrics for levels of IQ around and below the average, while the correlation for above average IQ is more dubious. In fact, IQ tests were originally designed to detect underperforming individuals.
The correlation between an high IQ and being a “nerd” is also debatable, while, at least in some circles, nerds may have an high IQ, it doesn’t follow that many high-IQ people are nerds. Also note that the whole concept of being a “nerd” migh be largely the effect of conformity biases.
These weren’t what I had in mind originally, but they look reasonably good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Real-life_accomplishments
Indeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Income
Low IQ precludes you various job opportunities, while the correlation between high IQ and performace is more dubious, some studies show decreasing marginal value, other studies show linear correlation.
This means that certain groups of professionally successful people have higher than average IQ, not that many higher than average IQ people become more professionally successful than average people.
I’d be interested in citations on that.
Entirely possible. I’m not sure the fraternity analogy holds water; at many colleges I would expect the decision to seek out a fraternity (as opposed to the decision to join one) to be at least partially motivated by obtaining higher status, whereas joining a cult generally only gets you higher status among existing cult members. I’m working primarily off of Cultish Countercultishness, in particular this part:
Your second point is also fair. What I think is implausible is that everyone who self-identifies as an intelligent nerd is actually intelligent. Maybe they only like thinking about nerdy topics but aren’t good at it and tell themselves a story about how they’re intelligent to fit in and maintain their self-image (being a dumb nerd sounds awful).