I agree. I was deliberately pushing the lack of evidence as far as I could in order to make the point as strongly as I could. In my imagined scenario (someone perfectly framed of a crime who nevertheless knows perfectly well that he is innocent—though has absolutely no evidence to lean on), I find it completely realistic to be such a person and to have a strong conviction in my own innocence even though there is not a scrap of evidence for it and a lot of evidence against it. This, I think, may provide a basis for trying to imagine what it is like to have a strong belief in a religion despite no evidence, even in the face of contrary evidence. As you say, the religious actually do have certain kinds of evidence.
I think it’s worthwhile to, if it is possible, try to understand people sympathetically, to try to understand them from the inside. I think that the ease of imagining myself as a perfectly framed person who remains firmly convinced of his own innocence in the face of zero evidence for and plenty against suggests that the difference between believers and nonbelievers is not as deep as it might have seemed. There is, necessarily, some difference, but I don’t think it’s a matter of the brain functioning drastically differently.
There is, necessarily, some difference, but I don’t think it’s a matter of the brain functioning drastically differently.
I don’t think so either. From the explanations others have given me, belief seems to come from a) wanting the world to be a certain way, b) thinking (probably not consciously) that the world is this way if they believe it is, and c) interpreting observations about the world as evidence for the world being that way. Well, I have a) as well. It would be really freaking awesome if there was a God who talked to you and answered your prayers and never let anything bad happen. But I know that my believing that doesn’t make it true, and so I interpret the same real-world observations as meaning different things.
I think of it as follows. What is a memory? What is it like to experience having a memory? Subjectively, it seems to me that having a memory is like having an image, which I can call up at will, and in addition to having this image, I have the conviction that this image is a true image of some past thing or event. So what makes an image into what seems to me to be a memory rather than a mere fancy or daydream, is my own personal conviction that the image is a true reflection of the past. In this case you have a memory which is, or seems to be, a union of an image and a conviction about that image. Is the image taken by itself evidence of your past? I submit that it is at best weak evidence, since the image could just as easily be a flight of fancy. What makes the image into what seems to you to be a memory and thus into evidence of your past is your own conviction that the image is true. So the heart of the evidence is the fact of your conviction. But conviction is just what the religious have.
But I submit that it is furthermore possible to have a memory about the past even without an image. You can simply know (or seem to yourself to know) that something happened. This memory is pure conviction.
Finally, you can be convinced that you are innocent, not because of any memory that you have of the past, but because you do not have a certain memory, namely the memory of having committed the crime. In this case, there is no memory. So, you say, “I don’t think one’s own memories count as having no evidence”. But here, you have an absence of a particular memory, namely, the absence of the memory of the crime.
Meanwhile, don’t forget that (in the comment where I introduced this scenario) I did mention the existence of an expert, which we could enlarge to an endless parade of highly credentialed psychologists and neurologists from the best universities, who all swear up and down that you have suppressed your true memories of having committed the crime and constructed false memories in their place. In certain situations that might weaken your own confidence in your memories. But what you can do is to decide not to believe them, you can decide that your memories are true. This seems to me to somewhat resemble the religious person’s decision to believe in his religion.
I agree. I was deliberately pushing the lack of evidence as far as I could in order to make the point as strongly as I could. In my imagined scenario (someone perfectly framed of a crime who nevertheless knows perfectly well that he is innocent—though has absolutely no evidence to lean on), I find it completely realistic to be such a person and to have a strong conviction in my own innocence even though there is not a scrap of evidence for it and a lot of evidence against it. This, I think, may provide a basis for trying to imagine what it is like to have a strong belief in a religion despite no evidence, even in the face of contrary evidence. As you say, the religious actually do have certain kinds of evidence.
I think it’s worthwhile to, if it is possible, try to understand people sympathetically, to try to understand them from the inside. I think that the ease of imagining myself as a perfectly framed person who remains firmly convinced of his own innocence in the face of zero evidence for and plenty against suggests that the difference between believers and nonbelievers is not as deep as it might have seemed. There is, necessarily, some difference, but I don’t think it’s a matter of the brain functioning drastically differently.
I don’t think so either. From the explanations others have given me, belief seems to come from a) wanting the world to be a certain way, b) thinking (probably not consciously) that the world is this way if they believe it is, and c) interpreting observations about the world as evidence for the world being that way. Well, I have a) as well. It would be really freaking awesome if there was a God who talked to you and answered your prayers and never let anything bad happen. But I know that my believing that doesn’t make it true, and so I interpret the same real-world observations as meaning different things.
I don’t think one’s own memories count as having no evidence.
I think of it as follows. What is a memory? What is it like to experience having a memory? Subjectively, it seems to me that having a memory is like having an image, which I can call up at will, and in addition to having this image, I have the conviction that this image is a true image of some past thing or event. So what makes an image into what seems to me to be a memory rather than a mere fancy or daydream, is my own personal conviction that the image is a true reflection of the past. In this case you have a memory which is, or seems to be, a union of an image and a conviction about that image. Is the image taken by itself evidence of your past? I submit that it is at best weak evidence, since the image could just as easily be a flight of fancy. What makes the image into what seems to you to be a memory and thus into evidence of your past is your own conviction that the image is true. So the heart of the evidence is the fact of your conviction. But conviction is just what the religious have.
But I submit that it is furthermore possible to have a memory about the past even without an image. You can simply know (or seem to yourself to know) that something happened. This memory is pure conviction.
Finally, you can be convinced that you are innocent, not because of any memory that you have of the past, but because you do not have a certain memory, namely the memory of having committed the crime. In this case, there is no memory. So, you say, “I don’t think one’s own memories count as having no evidence”. But here, you have an absence of a particular memory, namely, the absence of the memory of the crime.
Meanwhile, don’t forget that (in the comment where I introduced this scenario) I did mention the existence of an expert, which we could enlarge to an endless parade of highly credentialed psychologists and neurologists from the best universities, who all swear up and down that you have suppressed your true memories of having committed the crime and constructed false memories in their place. In certain situations that might weaken your own confidence in your memories. But what you can do is to decide not to believe them, you can decide that your memories are true. This seems to me to somewhat resemble the religious person’s decision to believe in his religion.