The issue is that this number captures efficacy starting on the day you receive the vaccine (or sometimes 7 days later)
Do you know how the efficacy on a given day is defined? I’m assuming it’s going by date of first reporting symptoms (because you can’t always know when the exposure was), but it makes a big difference if you’re thinking “when am I safe to expose my self to covid”.
But it’s equally important to note that the the phase 3′s were true randomized controlled trials—the placebo group was given a fake injection and everything
I did the Pfizer phase 3 trial, and this isn’t really true.
The side effects are clear enough that without an active placebo, calling it “blind” is kinda a joke in the first place. On top of that, people in the waiting room were talking about how you can tell if you’re getting the real vaccine by looking at the syringe. And top of that, the doctor who gave me the injection basically told me that I got the real thing (“Keep wearing your mask, we don’t know yet if these work”), and said something equally revealing to at least one other person I know who did the trial.
Yes cases show up in the data on the day that they first report symptoms, not when they were first exposed. As you say, this means that if the data show some efficacy on a given day, you should actually expect to be protected at that level a few days before.
On top of that, people in the waiting room were talking about how you can tell if you’re getting the real vaccine by looking at the syringe. And top of that, the doctor who gave me the injection basically told me that I got the real thing (“Keep wearing your mask, we don’t know yet if these work”), and said something equally revealing to at least one other person I know who did the trial.
Wow. I know that because of side-effects these things can never be fully blinded, but this is just horrifying.
(Technical point: the phase 3′s still were randomized controlled trials, they just weren’t double-blind. But double-blind is the relevant characteristic when asking whether the different results are due to partying Israelis, so that’s fine.)
(Technical point: the phase 3′s still were randomized controlled trials, they just weren’t double-blind. But double-blind is the relevant characteristic when asking whether the different results are due to partying Israelis, so that’s fine.)
Yeah, the part I was objecting to there was “the placebo group was given a fake injection and everything”. Not only did they do far less than “everything” that is supposed to go with giving fake injections, they also failed to give me a fake injection! My second “placebo” was a real vaccine and my dad’s second “vaccine” was a placebo!
And top of that, the doctor who gave me the injection basically told me that I got the real thing (“Keep wearing your mask, we don’t know yet if these work”)
Do you know how the efficacy on a given day is defined? I’m assuming it’s going by date of first reporting symptoms (because you can’t always know when the exposure was), but it makes a big difference if you’re thinking “when am I safe to expose my self to covid”.
I did the Pfizer phase 3 trial, and this isn’t really true.
The side effects are clear enough that without an active placebo, calling it “blind” is kinda a joke in the first place. On top of that, people in the waiting room were talking about how you can tell if you’re getting the real vaccine by looking at the syringe. And top of that, the doctor who gave me the injection basically told me that I got the real thing (“Keep wearing your mask, we don’t know yet if these work”), and said something equally revealing to at least one other person I know who did the trial.
Yes cases show up in the data on the day that they first report symptoms, not when they were first exposed. As you say, this means that if the data show some efficacy on a given day, you should actually expect to be protected at that level a few days before.
Wow. I know that because of side-effects these things can never be fully blinded, but this is just horrifying.
(Technical point: the phase 3′s still were randomized controlled trials, they just weren’t double-blind. But double-blind is the relevant characteristic when asking whether the different results are due to partying Israelis, so that’s fine.)
Yeah, the part I was objecting to there was “the placebo group was given a fake injection and everything”. Not only did they do far less than “everything” that is supposed to go with giving fake injections, they also failed to give me a fake injection! My second “placebo” was a real vaccine and my dad’s second “vaccine” was a placebo!
According to https://www.nbc12.com/2020/12/17/pfizer-trials-placebo-volunteers-tapped-receive-real-vaccine/ it should have been double blind, so the doctor wouldn’t know and might randomly say those things to people if he thinks they might skip wearing the mask afterwards.
Shame on them for misreporting. It was not double blind.
I wouldn’t put it past this guy for not knowing anyway, but he was 2 for 2 in accidentally hinting at the right thing (one vaccine, one placebo)