Lip service is “Oh, what is happening in Darfur is so terrible!”. That is different from “If I was a better person I’d help the people of Darfur” or “I’m such a bad person, I bought a t.v. instead of giving to charity”. The first signals empathy the second and third signal laziness or selfishness (and honesty I guess).
Both are hollow words anyway. Both imply that you care, when you really don’t. There are no real actions.
Why do values have to produce first order desires?
Because, uhm, if you really value something, you’d probably want to do something? Not “want to want”, or anything, but really care about that stuff which you value. Right?
For that matter, why can’t they be socially constructed norms which people are rewarded for buying into?
Sure they can. I expressed this as safe zone manipulation, attempting to modify your envinroment so that your conformist behavior leads to working for some value.
The point here is that actually caring about something and working towards something due to arbitrary choice and social pressure are quite different things. Since you seem to advocate the latter, I’m assuming that we both agree that people rarely care about anything and most actions are result of social pressure and stuff not directly related to actually caring or valuing anything.
Which brings me back to my first point: Why does it seem that many people here actually care about the world? Like, as in paperclip maximizer cares about paperclips. Just optical illusion and conscious effort to appear as a rational agent valuing the world, or something else?
Both are hollow words anyway. Both imply that you care, when you really don’t. There are no real actions.
Because, uhm, if you really value something, you’d probably want to do something? Not “want to want”, or anything, but really care about that stuff which you value. Right?
Sure they can. I expressed this as safe zone manipulation, attempting to modify your envinroment so that your conformist behavior leads to working for some value.
The point here is that actually caring about something and working towards something due to arbitrary choice and social pressure are quite different things. Since you seem to advocate the latter, I’m assuming that we both agree that people rarely care about anything and most actions are result of social pressure and stuff not directly related to actually caring or valuing anything.
Which brings me back to my first point: Why does it seem that many people here actually care about the world? Like, as in paperclip maximizer cares about paperclips. Just optical illusion and conscious effort to appear as a rational agent valuing the world, or something else?