I’m always amused by the way Theravada teachers will write a book or three explaining in great detail the same territory that Zen teachers will just gesture toward and expect you to figure the rest out for for yourself. Seems like there could be some sort of, iduno, middle road somewhere. ;-P
The litany of Gendlin sits with Egan’s Law at the top of a section of my exobrain where I keep stuff I want to remember all the time, right next to a card in an adjacent section of thoughts I’m trying out that just says “one Now at a time”.
There is, and lots of traditions along it, but I think where on that spectrum is best depends as much on the student as anything else. You’re trying to make purely mental moves to shift your mind into a new stable state, but the mind is complicated enough with enough variety in starting states that different techniques are likely to work for different people.
For me, Scott Alexander’s book review that got me to read Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha is what resonated for me and really helped my meditation practice progress. It’s at lot of explanation and description but very insistent about the limits of words anyway.
My take on the argument for the Zen approach is that as you bring in book-length discussions, it’s hard for anyone who doesn’t already understand to judge whether what was written is “right” or useful. So over time you end up with a lot of garbage to parse through which may or may not still make the whole better than the Zen approach.
I was actually trying to make a joke by pointing at the extremes and borrowing the “middle road” metaphor from the Buddha, but you’re completely correct. And actually, I didn’t even have a practice before that book review, so huge thanks to Scott!
For sure there’s something to the Zen approach of “just look at it, it’s all right there”, and also something to Theravada’s detailed maps to keep folks from getting too lost along the way. I really enjoy the maps—they help normalize the experiences—but in the end I find I tend to make the most progress when I forget about maps and “just look”.
For myself, I’m one of the people who, like the writer of that book mentions can happen, accidentally had my A&P experience before I had any meditation practice, back in freshman year of college. Also had several times when I had all the 1st jhana experiences spontaneously, too. All I can say is, my next 12 years (10 before I started regularly meditating) made it very clear to me that the “dark night” is real, and I’m so glad I’m 1) now out of it, and 2) have a name for it.
Wild! My experiences of unusual mind states have largely been pretty subtle, and mostly came after months of regular practice.[1] And I haven’t had any experience at all that I would be willing to point to as an A&P event. Of course, there’s ADHD and a complete lack of retreat time to consider in those results. Someday I’ll get out there and see what a good week of dedicated concentration in carefully crafted conditions can do for me.
On the other side of the coin, I’ve been able to use that I have learned from the last few years of meditation and absorbing lots of dharma talks (and a few books) to be a better parent, partner, coworker, and friend to the people around me; so good stuff there!
[^1] To be fair, I did have a few childhood experiences that are consistent with 1st jhana. I even remember having the spontaneous realization that the visual field was entirely a product of the mind. I think I was 8yo at the time.
I’m always amused by the way Theravada teachers will write a book or three explaining in great detail the same territory that Zen teachers will just gesture toward and expect you to figure the rest out for for yourself. Seems like there could be some sort of, iduno, middle road somewhere. ;-P
The litany of Gendlin sits with Egan’s Law at the top of a section of my exobrain where I keep stuff I want to remember all the time, right next to a card in an adjacent section of thoughts I’m trying out that just says “one Now at a time”.
There is, and lots of traditions along it, but I think where on that spectrum is best depends as much on the student as anything else. You’re trying to make purely mental moves to shift your mind into a new stable state, but the mind is complicated enough with enough variety in starting states that different techniques are likely to work for different people.
For me, Scott Alexander’s book review that got me to read Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha is what resonated for me and really helped my meditation practice progress. It’s at lot of explanation and description but very insistent about the limits of words anyway.
My take on the argument for the Zen approach is that as you bring in book-length discussions, it’s hard for anyone who doesn’t already understand to judge whether what was written is “right” or useful. So over time you end up with a lot of garbage to parse through which may or may not still make the whole better than the Zen approach.
I was actually trying to make a joke by pointing at the extremes and borrowing the “middle road” metaphor from the Buddha, but you’re completely correct. And actually, I didn’t even have a practice before that book review, so huge thanks to Scott!
For sure there’s something to the Zen approach of “just look at it, it’s all right there”, and also something to Theravada’s detailed maps to keep folks from getting too lost along the way. I really enjoy the maps—they help normalize the experiences—but in the end I find I tend to make the most progress when I forget about maps and “just look”.
Ah, I totally missed that! Makes sense :)
For myself, I’m one of the people who, like the writer of that book mentions can happen, accidentally had my A&P experience before I had any meditation practice, back in freshman year of college. Also had several times when I had all the 1st jhana experiences spontaneously, too. All I can say is, my next 12 years (10 before I started regularly meditating) made it very clear to me that the “dark night” is real, and I’m so glad I’m 1) now out of it, and 2) have a name for it.
Wild! My experiences of unusual mind states have largely been pretty subtle, and mostly came after months of regular practice.[1] And I haven’t had any experience at all that I would be willing to point to as an A&P event. Of course, there’s ADHD and a complete lack of retreat time to consider in those results. Someday I’ll get out there and see what a good week of dedicated concentration in carefully crafted conditions can do for me. On the other side of the coin, I’ve been able to use that I have learned from the last few years of meditation and absorbing lots of dharma talks (and a few books) to be a better parent, partner, coworker, and friend to the people around me; so good stuff there!
[^1] To be fair, I did have a few childhood experiences that are consistent with 1st jhana. I even remember having the spontaneous realization that the visual field was entirely a product of the mind. I think I was 8yo at the time.