Agreed, there is no “decision theory/rationality under ADHD coherence constraints”. There should be, though. In a sense, you learn to make it up for yourself, as you go along.
11. You can mentally construct chains of necessary actions quickly and get a feeling of pleasurable productivity from doing so. It’s not much trouble to folow the association chains, circle back to the problem and even have a very thorough plan!
However, then executing that plan is boring, so it won’t get done.
12. Extreme variance in motivation during the day; motivation is dependent on stimulant use and hidden, difficult to manage variables like “dopamine availability”. When you don’t have it, you’re also not motivated to deal with it.
13. [your 1, I think] Dazed, low consciousness states where nothing gets done and you mindlessly follow the dopamine gradient. The so called “hyperfocus”. [watching YouTube/playing video games/online chat/commenting on LessWrong...… damnit!] Pretty sure, you could actually see less areas lighting up when neuroimaging. Rejection-sensitivity? Not sure what it has to do with rejection. It’s just that what I find important when I’m properly “with it” will not occur to me. Even if it does, it won’t seem “plausible/meaningful” and be crowded out by stronger associations.
It’s not so much that the utility function changes, but more like your utility function not being loaded, leaving you in a default, feral state. There might be vague awareness of this not being right at times, but there’s no surefire way of fully waking up. Taking more stimulants might help, but can also fuel a more fun, extended “hyperfocus”-episode.
14. Trouble is, you often can make plans just fine, but you might as well not bother, since you won’t be able to know if/when you’re going to be properly “awake” to execute them.
15.
Computer use is absolutelly necessary, but also extremely risky.
16.
Load times of a couple seconds or less are often enough to lead you to do another more engaging thing to do on the computer. Software and webpages satisfice hard for “acceptable speed”, that can easily break your flow and disrupt concentration.
--
Not that those things are insurmountable. They are just very difficult, because you have to guard and manage your consciousness state from constant memetic threats trying to grab your extension. Internal (earworms, intrusive memories from TV shows, daydreaming, thinking thru random problems) and external (the internet, recommendations). The digital world is actively hostile to an ADHDers coherence and there’s no best practices for guarding against it yet. I’m working on it, though.
there is no “decision theory/rationality under ADHD coherence constraints”
That’s a nice framing to get us thinking. Could be generalized to “under constraints of suboptimal executive function”, since everyone has unique issues with it. Anyway, any progress since last?
I have thoughts on #15:
Computer use is absolutelly necessary, but also extremely risky.
I’ve had periods of my life when I cut out my computer (just shoving it into my wardrobe and forgetting about it). They lasted a few weeks and I can say they were amazing periods. I was able to “live more reflectively”, with more awareness of the future, of myself, of what I was doing, and of where my life was headed. I had more agency.
Sure, there were things I needed a computer for, but for those things I went to the university library and used their computer. It’s not great since you don’t get to pick the operating system or use the software of your choice, and the total lack of privacy made me uncomfortable browsing much on the web, but these factors made it unattractive to remain at the computer longer than necessary. Basically, I wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. I counted that a benefit.
To anyone who recognizes themselves on this point, I’d suggest to find a way to do your work or schoolwork without your own computer. It may seem like a bad idea and even impossible, but if you take it seriously, you’ll usually find it can be done (I am 85% confident). Set a 5-minute timer and think about it.
A caveat, I don’t find my smartphone distracting at all, so I was able to do some chores on that device without risk. If this is a problem, you have to put that away as well and batch up every single chore that requires web access (write them down) to do them all at the library. And if you tend to journal a lot with the computer, I’d suggest learning to speedwrite or getting a manual typewriter. The slowness of handwriting frustrates me and makes me lose my train of thought.
Agreed, there is no “decision theory/rationality under ADHD coherence constraints”. There should be, though.
In a sense, you learn to make it up for yourself, as you go along.
11.
You can mentally construct chains of necessary actions quickly and get a feeling of pleasurable productivity from doing so. It’s not much trouble to folow the association chains, circle back to the problem and even have a very thorough plan!
However, then executing that plan is boring, so it won’t get done.
12.
Extreme variance in motivation during the day; motivation is dependent on stimulant use and hidden, difficult to manage variables like “dopamine availability”.
When you don’t have it, you’re also not motivated to deal with it.
13. [your 1, I think]
Dazed, low consciousness states where nothing gets done and you mindlessly follow the dopamine gradient. The so called “hyperfocus”. [watching YouTube/playing video games/online chat/commenting on LessWrong...… damnit!]
Pretty sure, you could actually see less areas lighting up when neuroimaging.
Rejection-sensitivity? Not sure what it has to do with rejection. It’s just that what I find important when I’m properly “with it” will not occur to me. Even if it does, it won’t seem “plausible/meaningful” and be crowded out by stronger associations.
It’s not so much that the utility function changes, but more like your utility function not being loaded, leaving you in a default, feral state.
There might be vague awareness of this not being right at times, but there’s no surefire way of fully waking up. Taking more stimulants might help, but can also fuel a more fun, extended “hyperfocus”-episode.
14.
Trouble is, you often can make plans just fine, but you might as well not bother, since you won’t be able to know if/when you’re going to be properly “awake” to execute them.
15.
Computer use is absolutelly necessary, but also extremely risky.
16.
Load times of a couple seconds or less are often enough to lead you to do another more engaging thing to do on the computer. Software and webpages satisfice hard for “acceptable speed”, that can easily break your flow and disrupt concentration.
--
Not that those things are insurmountable. They are just very difficult, because you have to guard and manage your consciousness state from constant memetic threats trying to grab your extension. Internal (earworms, intrusive memories from TV shows, daydreaming, thinking thru random problems) and external (the internet, recommendations).
The digital world is actively hostile to an ADHDers coherence and there’s no best practices for guarding against it yet.
I’m working on it, though.
That’s a nice framing to get us thinking. Could be generalized to “under constraints of suboptimal executive function”, since everyone has unique issues with it. Anyway, any progress since last?
I have thoughts on #15:
I’ve had periods of my life when I cut out my computer (just shoving it into my wardrobe and forgetting about it). They lasted a few weeks and I can say they were amazing periods. I was able to “live more reflectively”, with more awareness of the future, of myself, of what I was doing, and of where my life was headed. I had more agency.
Sure, there were things I needed a computer for, but for those things I went to the university library and used their computer. It’s not great since you don’t get to pick the operating system or use the software of your choice, and the total lack of privacy made me uncomfortable browsing much on the web, but these factors made it unattractive to remain at the computer longer than necessary. Basically, I wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. I counted that a benefit.
To anyone who recognizes themselves on this point, I’d suggest to find a way to do your work or schoolwork without your own computer. It may seem like a bad idea and even impossible, but if you take it seriously, you’ll usually find it can be done (I am 85% confident). Set a 5-minute timer and think about it.
A caveat, I don’t find my smartphone distracting at all, so I was able to do some chores on that device without risk. If this is a problem, you have to put that away as well and batch up every single chore that requires web access (write them down) to do them all at the library. And if you tend to journal a lot with the computer, I’d suggest learning to speedwrite or getting a manual typewriter. The slowness of handwriting frustrates me and makes me lose my train of thought.