Do you have a Greasemonkey script that rips all the qualifying words out of my post, or something?
All readers have a Greasemonkey script that rips all the qualifying words out of a post. This is a natural fact of writing and reading.
Your comment above seems to be reacting to a different post that I didn’t write
Not the post you wrote—the post that the long-time LWer who Twittered “Eliezer’s Yudkowsky’s Sequences are mostly not original” read. The actual real-world consequences of a post like this when people actually read it are what bothers me, and it does feel frustrating because those consequences seem very predictable—like you’re living in an authorial should-universe. Of course somebody’s going to read that post and think “Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Sequences are mostly not original”! Of course that’s going to be the consequence of writing it! And maybe it’s just because I was reading it instead of writing it myself, without having all of your intentions so prominently in my mind, but I don’t see why on Earth you’d expect any other message to come across than that. A few qualifying words don’t have the kind of power it takes to stop that from happening!
All readers have a Greasemonkey script that rips all the qualifying words out of a post… I don’t see why on Earth you’d expect any other message to come across than [“Eliezer’s Sequences are mostly not original”].
Do you think most readers misinterpreted my post in that way? I doubt it. It looks to me like one person tweeted “Eliezer’s Sequences mostly not original” — a misinterpretation of my post which I’ve now explicitly denied near the top of the post.
My guess now would be that I probably underestimate the degree to which readers misinterpreted my post (because my own intentions were clear in my mind, illusion of transparency), and that you probably overestimate the degree to which readers misinterpreted my post (because you seem to have initially misinterpreted it, and that misinterpretation diminishes several years of cognitive work that you are justly proud of).
Also: you seem to be focusing on the one tweeted misinterpretation and not taking into account that we have evidence that the post is also achieving its explicitly stated goals, as evidenced by many of the comments on this thread: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
It is very easy to read the sequences and think that you think the philosophical thought is original to you. Other than the FAI stuff and decision theory stuff, is that true?
What exactly is wrong with being thought of as a very high-end popularizer? That material is incredibly well presented.
Additionally, people who disagree with your philosophical positions ought not be put in the (EDIT: position) of needing to reinvent the philosophical wheel to engage critically with your essays.
Additionally, people who disagree with your philosophical positions ought not be put in the power of needing to reinvent the philosophical wheel to engage critically with your essays.
Of course somebody’s going to read that post and think “Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Sequences are mostly not original”! Of course that’s going to be the consequence of writing it!
Only a single conclusion is possible: LukeProg is a TRAITOR!
Only a single conclusion is possible: LukeProg is a TRAITOR!
I can understand why this would be negatively received by some—it is clearly hyperbole with a degree of silliness involved. That said—and possibly coincidentally—there is a serious point here. In fact it is the most salient point I noticed when reading the post and initial responses.
In most social hierarchies this post would be seen as a betrayal. An unusually overt and public political move against Eliezer. Not necessarily treason, betrayal of the tribe, it is a move against a rival. Of course it would certainly be in the interest of the targeted rival to try to portray the move as treason (or heresy, or whatever other kind of betrayal of the tribe rather than mere personal conflict.)
The above consideration is why I initially expected Eliezer to agree to a larger extent than he did (which evidently wasn’t very much!) Before making public statements of a highly status sensitive nature regarding an ally the typical political actor will make sure they aren’t offending them—they don’t take the small risk establishing an active rivalry unless they are certain the payoffs are worth it.
This (definitely!) isn’t to say that any of the above applies to this situation. Rationalists are weird and in particular can have an unusual relationship between their intellectual and political expression. ie. They sometimes go around saying what they think.
The thought that Luke was trying to sabotage my position, consciously or unconsciously, honestly never crossed my mind until I read this comment. Having now considered the hypothesis rather briefly, I assign it a rather low probability. Luke’s not like that.
It is perhaps worth noting that wedrifid didn’t say anything about motives (conscious or otherwise).
Whether I believe someone is trying to sabotage my position (consciously or unconsciously) is a different question from whether I believe they are making a move against me in a shared social hierarchy. (Although each is evidence for the other, of course.)
All readers have a Greasemonkey script that rips all the qualifying words out of a post. This is a natural fact of writing and reading.
Not the post you wrote—the post that the long-time LWer who Twittered “Eliezer’s Yudkowsky’s Sequences are mostly not original” read. The actual real-world consequences of a post like this when people actually read it are what bothers me, and it does feel frustrating because those consequences seem very predictable—like you’re living in an authorial should-universe. Of course somebody’s going to read that post and think “Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Sequences are mostly not original”! Of course that’s going to be the consequence of writing it! And maybe it’s just because I was reading it instead of writing it myself, without having all of your intentions so prominently in my mind, but I don’t see why on Earth you’d expect any other message to come across than that. A few qualifying words don’t have the kind of power it takes to stop that from happening!
Do you think most readers misinterpreted my post in that way? I doubt it. It looks to me like one person tweeted “Eliezer’s Sequences mostly not original” — a misinterpretation of my post which I’ve now explicitly denied near the top of the post.
My guess now would be that I probably underestimate the degree to which readers misinterpreted my post (because my own intentions were clear in my mind, illusion of transparency), and that you probably overestimate the degree to which readers misinterpreted my post (because you seem to have initially misinterpreted it, and that misinterpretation diminishes several years of cognitive work that you are justly proud of).
Also: you seem to be focusing on the one tweeted misinterpretation and not taking into account that we have evidence that the post is also achieving its explicitly stated goals, as evidenced by many of the comments on this thread: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
It is very easy to read the sequences and think that you think the philosophical thought is original to you. Other than the FAI stuff and decision theory stuff, is that true?
What exactly is wrong with being thought of as a very high-end popularizer? That material is incredibly well presented.
Additionally, people who disagree with your philosophical positions ought not be put in the (EDIT: position) of needing to reinvent the philosophical wheel to engage critically with your essays.
Put in the position of?
Yes, thanks.
I’d take out the EDIT—people can see from the comment below that you edited in response to a comment.
I don’t. In fact, I sometimes insert such words.
Only a single conclusion is possible: LukeProg is a TRAITOR!
I can understand why this would be negatively received by some—it is clearly hyperbole with a degree of silliness involved. That said—and possibly coincidentally—there is a serious point here. In fact it is the most salient point I noticed when reading the post and initial responses.
In most social hierarchies this post would be seen as a betrayal. An unusually overt and public political move against Eliezer. Not necessarily treason, betrayal of the tribe, it is a move against a rival. Of course it would certainly be in the interest of the targeted rival to try to portray the move as treason (or heresy, or whatever other kind of betrayal of the tribe rather than mere personal conflict.)
The above consideration is why I initially expected Eliezer to agree to a larger extent than he did (which evidently wasn’t very much!) Before making public statements of a highly status sensitive nature regarding an ally the typical political actor will make sure they aren’t offending them—they don’t take the small risk establishing an active rivalry unless they are certain the payoffs are worth it.
This (definitely!) isn’t to say that any of the above applies to this situation. Rationalists are weird and in particular can have an unusual relationship between their intellectual and political expression. ie. They sometimes go around saying what they think.
The thought that Luke was trying to sabotage my position, consciously or unconsciously, honestly never crossed my mind until I read this comment. Having now considered the hypothesis rather briefly, I assign it a rather low probability. Luke’s not like that.
It is perhaps worth noting that wedrifid didn’t say anything about motives (conscious or otherwise).
Whether I believe someone is trying to sabotage my position (consciously or unconsciously) is a different question from whether I believe they are making a move against me in a shared social hierarchy. (Although each is evidence for the other, of course.)