The first versions of CloneBot (the name of the program for our clique) did actually contain a mistake I could exploit (by defining the __new__() method of the class after the payload) and so this was my plan until Vanilla_Cabs fixed this mistake. After they fixed it, I didn’t notice any way I can take advantage, so I joined the clique in spirit.
Little did you know that I was aware of this weakness from the beginning, and left it as a test to find whom I could trust to search for the weaknesses I didn’t know. Of the 3 (I think) to whom I showed the code early, only Lanrian reported it.
I’m curious how believable my lies were, I felt them to be pretty weak, hopefully it’s only because of my inside view.
I didn’t play a simulator so I didn’t care about the first.
About the second, I can tell you that another member alerted me that you seemed to have a hidden ally. They feared you had made an ally outside the clique, or just given the code to join the clique to a player know only to you. Which I thought was a possibility. Actually, I hoped for a few stowaways to boost our numbers.
Maybe it’s a little cheap to say this after you’ve revealed it, but it did actually occur to me that you might have deliberately made this weakness. Had I known that in Python you can redefine methods, I might have reported it, but the exploit with __new__() seemed pretty obscure (even though I didn’t know the other way and I did know this). The possibility of this being a test was also the reason I went with the “Oh I’m so busy, I didn’t have time to review the code..” excuse. I’m also curious whether Larion calculated with you deliberately planting the mistake or they had in-game ethics. Also, before you posted the list of the members publicly, you were the center of the clique and could control the information the clique members got. I was really paranoid about this and I feel you could have used this somehow. Have you thought along these lines?
About your second point, It’s nice I could make someone believe that I had an ally outside the clique.
Oh, that was me I think. I had simply thought your comment meant you were preparing code with someone else. Whether he was inside the clique, outside it, or a non player helping you out I wasn’t sure, but I still recommended caution.
I did think it was weird that you’d let slip such information, but couldn’t see any reason for making people think you had allies, so I just thought that the most likely explanation was that a non player was helping you. Still, being cautious wouldn’t hurt.
I have to say I didn’t made the connection about simulation crashing software being outside the clique, likely because I wasn’t playing a simulator so I didn’t thought much about it.
All in all… I think it’s a lie that would work best on the people it wouldn’t need to work on. If I had thought to change a plan I had going based on the information you provided, I would have wondered a bit more about why you did that, perhaps getting suspicious.
But I still think it wouldn’t really be obvious as a lie to anyone.
On a side note, I really love this site. I can’t really recall any other game I’ve been in getting this tangled.
I didn’t know about __new__(), I only knew about redifining methods, so based on what you knew, your reasoning was correct.
I knew no one before starting the clique. Lanrian joined the same way as the others. If anything, Lanrian was suspicious because they insisted we put the random.seed() inside move() and make it pseudorandom so that simulators can accurately emulate our behaviour. The reason they gave was to better collaborate, and have the simulators play 2 against 3 instead of 3 against 3. I was mildly convinced and I still am suspicious of that move. They only late in the week reported the weakness, after you and philh passed on the chance to do so. But they did so soon after I showed them the code.
I was really paranoid about this and I feel you could have used this somehow.
The secrecy on the members was used to:
prevent members and potential members from worrying if there were too few current members. That was the purpose I had in mind when I made that choice. A few days before the end I still was not sure we’d be enough. I was also worried some members would drop if we were too little. So the 2 members who joined in the last 2 days really helped.
avoid any collusion between members that would not include me. And more generally receive any valuable information that members would like to share.
So I used that advantage only in a defensive way. But I did receive an offer that did inform me on more offensive uses, and impacted my payload, which I will elaborate on if the sender allows it.
I didn’t think about reporting the bug as making a sub-optimal but ethical choice – I just wanted to be part of a clique that worked instead of a clique where people defected. My aversion to lying might have affected my intuitions about what the correct choice was, though, idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Little did you know that I was aware of this weakness from the beginning, and left it as a test to find whom I could trust to search for the weaknesses I didn’t know. Of the 3 (I think) to whom I showed the code early, only Lanrian reported it.
I didn’t play a simulator so I didn’t care about the first.
About the second, I can tell you that another member alerted me that you seemed to have a hidden ally. They feared you had made an ally outside the clique, or just given the code to join the clique to a player know only to you. Which I thought was a possibility. Actually, I hoped for a few stowaways to boost our numbers.
Maybe it’s a little cheap to say this after you’ve revealed it, but it did actually occur to me that you might have deliberately made this weakness. Had I known that in Python you can redefine methods, I might have reported it, but the exploit with __new__() seemed pretty obscure (even though I didn’t know the other way and I did know this). The possibility of this being a test was also the reason I went with the “Oh I’m so busy, I didn’t have time to review the code..” excuse. I’m also curious whether Larion calculated with you deliberately planting the mistake or they had in-game ethics. Also, before you posted the list of the members publicly, you were the center of the clique and could control the information the clique members got. I was really paranoid about this and I feel you could have used this somehow. Have you thought along these lines?
About your second point, It’s nice I could make someone believe that I had an ally outside the clique.
Oh, that was me I think. I had simply thought your comment meant you were preparing code with someone else. Whether he was inside the clique, outside it, or a non player helping you out I wasn’t sure, but I still recommended caution.
I did think it was weird that you’d let slip such information, but couldn’t see any reason for making people think you had allies, so I just thought that the most likely explanation was that a non player was helping you. Still, being cautious wouldn’t hurt.
I have to say I didn’t made the connection about simulation crashing software being outside the clique, likely because I wasn’t playing a simulator so I didn’t thought much about it.
All in all… I think it’s a lie that would work best on the people it wouldn’t need to work on. If I had thought to change a plan I had going based on the information you provided, I would have wondered a bit more about why you did that, perhaps getting suspicious.
But I still think it wouldn’t really be obvious as a lie to anyone.
On a side note, I really love this site. I can’t really recall any other game I’ve been in getting this tangled.
I didn’t know about __new__(), I only knew about redifining methods, so based on what you knew, your reasoning was correct.
I knew no one before starting the clique. Lanrian joined the same way as the others. If anything, Lanrian was suspicious because they insisted we put the random.seed() inside move() and make it pseudorandom so that simulators can accurately emulate our behaviour. The reason they gave was to better collaborate, and have the simulators play 2 against 3 instead of 3 against 3. I was mildly convinced and I still am suspicious of that move. They only late in the week reported the weakness, after you and philh passed on the chance to do so. But they did so soon after I showed them the code.
The secrecy on the members was used to:
prevent members and potential members from worrying if there were too few current members. That was the purpose I had in mind when I made that choice. A few days before the end I still was not sure we’d be enough. I was also worried some members would drop if we were too little. So the 2 members who joined in the last 2 days really helped.
avoid any collusion between members that would not include me. And more generally receive any valuable information that members would like to share.
So I used that advantage only in a defensive way. But I did receive an offer that did inform me on more offensive uses, and impacted my payload, which I will elaborate on if the sender allows it.
I stand by my reasoning! As long as we don’t yield to bullying, simulators are our friends, ensuring that the maximum payout is always payed out.
I didn’t think about reporting the bug as making a sub-optimal but ethical choice – I just wanted to be part of a clique that worked instead of a clique where people defected. My aversion to lying might have affected my intuitions about what the correct choice was, though, idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯