Another huge link full of the jargon isn’t helpful. What do the leaders in the field claim for it? I’m looking for straight-forward English sentences describing the effects of employing NLP. Like how, if I asked someone what you can do with aerodynamics they might reply “Build things that fly!”.
It seems to be a kind of psychological therapy- but there are hundreds of such methods some supported by licensed clinicians and others not. All of it is subject to a huge placebo-like effect—to the point where all of it may be no better than talking to a bartender about your problems. So picking a random set of ideas in the entire therapy/self help memeplex and saying “Less Wrong should investigate this” is a bit preposterous absent powerful claims or good evidence. Why shouldn’t Less Wrong investigate one of the following instead: expressive art therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, functional analytic therapy, CBT, humanistic psychotherapy, existential psychotherapy, integrative-existential psychotherapy, re-evaluation counseling, psychodynamics, holistic psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, logotherapy, person-centered psychotherapy, primal therapy, psychosynthesis, REBT, RLT, Jungian psychotherapy, Lacanian psychotherapy, DBT, DDP, DNMS, conversation therapy, dance therapy, Daseinanalytic psychotherapy, feminist therapy, Gestalt therapy, Holotropic breathwork, rebirthing- breathwork, IFSM.
I haven’t studied “NLP” much, but I’ve studied how it all works, mostly from hypnosis resources. CBT, NLP, and hypnotherapy all use similar approaches and can be explained by the same perspective.
Useful things I’ve done with my knowledge include pain control, phobia cures, motion sickness near-cures, helping people deal with intrusive thoughts, that sort of thing. All quite effective- not some years of talking it out therapy.
It’s worth pointing out that “placebo effect!” isn’t an argument against anything- if it works it works. It’s just an argument for cheaper placebo’s. However, the barman is not a skilled placebomancer, and neither are you unless you do your research.
Hmm. What are the tenets of Placebomancy? Could we outline the practice in some way? What can it affect and what can it not? What are the limits of it’s power?
And furthermore, does NLP fit neatly into the category?
I’m kinda working on writing up a few front page posts on this. There are a ton of specific techniques to guide their thought processes the way you want, a lot of which you’ll recognize as exploiting crude heuristics that we’re trying to patch over here. I’ll get my act together and get them written.
The bits of NLP that I’ve seen overlap with what I’ve tried definitely use the same mechanism as placebo, even if not really “expectation based”.
All mental states seem to be fair game, as well as things your brain can control, like heart rate, blood pressure, etc. I’ve seen conflicting evidence on allergies, it works pretty well for warts (I’ve personally done that one and it really shocked me that it worked)
Another huge link full of the jargon isn’t helpful. What do the leaders in the field claim for it? I’m looking for straight-forward English sentences describing the effects of employing NLP. Like how, if I asked someone what you can do with aerodynamics they might reply “Build things that fly!”.
It seems to be a kind of psychological therapy- but there are hundreds of such methods some supported by licensed clinicians and others not. All of it is subject to a huge placebo-like effect—to the point where all of it may be no better than talking to a bartender about your problems. So picking a random set of ideas in the entire therapy/self help memeplex and saying “Less Wrong should investigate this” is a bit preposterous absent powerful claims or good evidence. Why shouldn’t Less Wrong investigate one of the following instead: expressive art therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, functional analytic therapy, CBT, humanistic psychotherapy, existential psychotherapy, integrative-existential psychotherapy, re-evaluation counseling, psychodynamics, holistic psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, logotherapy, person-centered psychotherapy, primal therapy, psychosynthesis, REBT, RLT, Jungian psychotherapy, Lacanian psychotherapy, DBT, DDP, DNMS, conversation therapy, dance therapy, Daseinanalytic psychotherapy, feminist therapy, Gestalt therapy, Holotropic breathwork, rebirthing- breathwork, IFSM.
I really could keep going.
I haven’t studied “NLP” much, but I’ve studied how it all works, mostly from hypnosis resources. CBT, NLP, and hypnotherapy all use similar approaches and can be explained by the same perspective.
Useful things I’ve done with my knowledge include pain control, phobia cures, motion sickness near-cures, helping people deal with intrusive thoughts, that sort of thing. All quite effective- not some years of talking it out therapy.
It’s worth pointing out that “placebo effect!” isn’t an argument against anything- if it works it works. It’s just an argument for cheaper placebo’s. However, the barman is not a skilled placebomancer, and neither are you unless you do your research.
Hmm. What are the tenets of Placebomancy? Could we outline the practice in some way? What can it affect and what can it not? What are the limits of it’s power?
And furthermore, does NLP fit neatly into the category?
I’m kinda working on writing up a few front page posts on this. There are a ton of specific techniques to guide their thought processes the way you want, a lot of which you’ll recognize as exploiting crude heuristics that we’re trying to patch over here. I’ll get my act together and get them written.
The bits of NLP that I’ve seen overlap with what I’ve tried definitely use the same mechanism as placebo, even if not really “expectation based”.
All mental states seem to be fair game, as well as things your brain can control, like heart rate, blood pressure, etc. I’ve seen conflicting evidence on allergies, it works pretty well for warts (I’ve personally done that one and it really shocked me that it worked)
Nothing against placebos. I’m just not in the least convinced NLP is among the cheapest or that bartenders are no good.
But good to have someone around who can at least answer the question.