liberal [doesn’t] mean the same thing in Europe as in America
Do European and American liberals advocate different policies, or is it just that the political spectrum in both places is different so the same policies appear at different relative positions?
libertarian [doesn’t] mean the same thing in Europe as in America
As far as I can tell, while this was true in the 19th century, Europe has almost completely adopted the American use of the word. Here are some examples (is there a way to get markdown to work with links that end in parentheses?):
liberal [doesn't] mean the same thing in Europe as in America
Do European and American liberals advocate different policies, or is it just that the political spectrum in both places is different so the same policies appear at different relative positions?
If I understand correctly, in America liberal is essentially a synonym of ‘(moderate) left-winger’, and hence the antonym of conservative or ‘(moderate) right-winger’ wrt social values, though they often are in favour of greater economic regulation (e.g. the US Democratic Party), whereas in Europe liberals are those who favour greater economic freedom, though they are often conservative wrt social values (e.g. the Italian centre-right). Among mainstream parties, it appears to me to be the case both in Europe and in America that the political spectrum concentrates along a line with positive slope in the PoliticalCompass, i.e. those who value free capitalism also value traditional social values and those who value economic equality also value social freedom (and liberal appear to refer to different directions along that line in Europe and in America), but Europe has (or should I say “used to have”?, I was not aware of the parties you mentioned) fewer extremists east of that line and America has fewer extremists west of it, AFAICT.
(is there a way to get markdown to work with links that end in parentheses?)
liberal [doesn’t] mean the same thing in Europe as in America
Do European and American liberals advocate different policies, or is it just that the political spectrum in both places is different so the same policies appear at different relative positions?
In short, ‘liberal’ in the US is merely the opposite of ‘conservative’, matching the usage of “He was liberal with his praise”; ‘liberal’ in Europe for the most part retains the meaning specified by ‘classical liberal’ in the US—“in favor of individual liberty”.
It looks to me like it means something more specific than just the opposite of “conservative”. For example, this article has a header “opposition to socialism”. I’m aware that US liberals are less conservative than the US spectrum and that European liberals are more in favor of individual liberty than the European spectrum, but before concluding they’re different, you’d first need to rule out the hypothesis that it’s because the US spectrum is more conservative and the European spectrum is less in favor of individual liberty.
ETA: I don’t think this is the whole explanation, but I think it’s a large part of the explanation.
The thing is, “less conservative” doesn’t actually mean anything in the US. “Conservative” and “liberal” are just pointers to the Republican and Democratic parties, respectively, which in turn are semi-permanent coalitions of people with vastly different (and often incompatible) ideologies, that end up being used for color politics. There isn’t really a spectrum, but you can pretend there is—if you have 390 Green beliefs and 100 Blue beliefs, then you’re clearly a Moderate Green (aquamarine?).
Whereas in most of Europe, parties actually represent ideologies to some extent, and so ideological terms don’t get corrupted so much in favor of talking about the platform of a party. This is often because temporary coalitions happen between political parties, instead of within them.
England is a notable exception to this—it has more-or-less two parties, and they pretend to fall on a “political spectrum” like the US parties; thus, they even tend to echo US meaningless political rhetoric.
Whereas in most of Europe, parties actually represent ideologies to some extent, and so ideological terms don’t get corrupted so much in favor of talking about the platform of a party. This is often because temporary coalitions happen between political parties, instead of within them.
At least in Italy, “It’s a complete mess” would be a more accurate (though less precise) description than that.
Do European and American liberals advocate different policies, or is it just that the political spectrum in both places is different so the same policies appear at different relative positions?
FWIW, in Australia, there are two main political parties, Liberal and Labor. The Liberals are reasonably close to the Republicans (from what I can glean of US politics), and “liberals” (US meaning) seem to align with Labor or one of the other parties.
is there a way to get markdown to work with links that end in parentheses
A backslash in front of the offending punctuation should fix it.
Do European and American liberals advocate different policies, or is it just that the political spectrum in both places is different so the same policies appear at different relative positions?
As far as I can tell, while this was true in the 19th century, Europe has almost completely adopted the American use of the word. Here are some examples (is there a way to get markdown to work with links that end in parentheses?):
http://libertaer.wordpress.com/themen/liberalismus/libertarismus/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Libertarian_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(Netherlands)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Movement_(Italy)
If I understand correctly, in America liberal is essentially a synonym of ‘(moderate) left-winger’, and hence the antonym of conservative or ‘(moderate) right-winger’ wrt social values, though they often are in favour of greater economic regulation (e.g. the US Democratic Party), whereas in Europe liberals are those who favour greater economic freedom, though they are often conservative wrt social values (e.g. the Italian centre-right). Among mainstream parties, it appears to me to be the case both in Europe and in America that the political spectrum concentrates along a line with positive slope in the Political Compass, i.e. those who value free capitalism also value traditional social values and those who value economic equality also value social freedom (and liberal appear to refer to different directions along that line in Europe and in America), but Europe has (or should I say “used to have”?, I was not aware of the parties you mentioned) fewer extremists east of that line and America has fewer extremists west of it, AFAICT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_%28Netherlands%29 (28 and 29 being the hex codes for ( and ) respectively).
FWIW I’m from Germany and tend to agree with the above comment.
Would have upvoted just for this.
Alternately, note that the escape character in markdown is “\”. Putting that before the (first) closing parenthesis works fine.
In short, ‘liberal’ in the US is merely the opposite of ‘conservative’, matching the usage of “He was liberal with his praise”; ‘liberal’ in Europe for the most part retains the meaning specified by ‘classical liberal’ in the US—“in favor of individual liberty”.
It looks to me like it means something more specific than just the opposite of “conservative”. For example, this article has a header “opposition to socialism”. I’m aware that US liberals are less conservative than the US spectrum and that European liberals are more in favor of individual liberty than the European spectrum, but before concluding they’re different, you’d first need to rule out the hypothesis that it’s because the US spectrum is more conservative and the European spectrum is less in favor of individual liberty.
ETA: I don’t think this is the whole explanation, but I think it’s a large part of the explanation.
The thing is, “less conservative” doesn’t actually mean anything in the US. “Conservative” and “liberal” are just pointers to the Republican and Democratic parties, respectively, which in turn are semi-permanent coalitions of people with vastly different (and often incompatible) ideologies, that end up being used for color politics. There isn’t really a spectrum, but you can pretend there is—if you have 390 Green beliefs and 100 Blue beliefs, then you’re clearly a Moderate Green (aquamarine?).
Whereas in most of Europe, parties actually represent ideologies to some extent, and so ideological terms don’t get corrupted so much in favor of talking about the platform of a party. This is often because temporary coalitions happen between political parties, instead of within them.
England is a notable exception to this—it has more-or-less two parties, and they pretend to fall on a “political spectrum” like the US parties; thus, they even tend to echo US meaningless political rhetoric.
At least in Italy, “It’s a complete mess” would be a more accurate (though less precise) description than that.
Agreed.
FWIW, in Australia, there are two main political parties, Liberal and Labor. The Liberals are reasonably close to the Republicans (from what I can glean of US politics), and “liberals” (US meaning) seem to align with Labor or one of the other parties.
A backslash in front of the offending punctuation should fix it.