If someone points to an AI that can generate scientific hypothesis, design novel experiments to attempt to falsify them and run those experiments in ways that could be applied to chemistry, cancer research and cryonics you’d just declare that those weren’t different enough domains because they’re all science and then demand that it also be able to control pianist robots and scuba dive and run a nail salon.
We have given you criteria by which you can judge an AI: whether it is a UKC or not. As I explained in the OP, if something can create knowledge in some disparate domains then you have a UKC. We will be happy to declare it as such. You are under the false idea that AI will arrive by degrees, that there is such a thing as a partial UKC, and that knowledge creators lie on a continuum with respect to their potential. AI will no more arrive by degrees than our universal computers did. Universal computation came about through Turing in one fell swoop, and very nearly by Babbage a century before.
You underestimate the difficulties facing AI. You do not appreciate how truly different people are to other animals and to things like Alpha Zero.
EDIT: That was meant to be in reply to HungryHobo.
I basically agree with this, although 1) you are expressing it badly, 2) you are incorporating a true fact about the world into part of a nonsensical system, and 3) you should not be attempting to proselytize people.
Can we agree that I am not trying to prosthelytize anyone? I think people should use their own minds and judgment and I do not want people just to take my word for something. In particular, I think:
(1) All claims to truth should be carefully scrutinised for error.
(2) Claiming authority or pointing skyward to an authority is not a road to truth.
These claims should themselves be scrutinised for error. How could I hold these consistently with holding any kind of religion? I am open to the idea that I am wrong about these things too or that I am inconsistent.
I also think claims to truth should not be watered down for social reasons. That is to disrespect the truth. People can mistake not watering down the truth for religious fervour and arrogance.
Can we agree that I am not trying to prosthelytize anyone?
No, I do not agree. You have been trying to proselytize people from the beginning and are still doing trying.
(2) Claiming authority or pointing skyward to an authority is not a road to truth.
This is why you need to stop pointing to “Critical Rationalism” etc. as the road to truth.
I also think claims to truth should not be watered down for social reasons. That is to disrespect the truth. People can mistake not watering down the truth for religious fervour and arrogance.
First, you are wrong. You should not mention truths that it is harmful to mention in situations where it is harmful to mention them. Second, you are not “not watering down the truth”. You are making many nonsensical and erroneous claims and presenting them as though they were a unified system of absolute truth. This is quite definitely proselytism.
Yes, there are situations were it can be harmful to state the truth. But there is a common social problem where people do not say what they think or water it down for fear of causing offense. Or because they are looking to gain status. That was the context.
The truth that curi and myself are trying to get across to people here is that you are doing AI wrong and are wasting your lives. We are willing to be ridiculed for stating that but it is the unvarnished truth. AI has been stuck in a rut for decades with no progress. People kid themselves that the latest shiny toy like Alpha Zero is progress but it is not.
AI research has bad epistemology at its heart and this is holding back AI in the same way that quantum physics was held back by bad epistemology. David Deutsch had a substantial role in clearing that problem up in QM (although there are many who still do not accept multiple universes). He needed the epistemology of CR to do that. See The Fabric of Reality.
Curi, Deutsch, and myself know far more about epistemology than you. That again is an unvarnished truth. We are saying we have ideas that can help get AI moving. In particular CR. You are blinded by things you think are so but that cannot be. The myth of Induction for one.
AI is blocked—you have to consider that some of your deeply held ideas are false. How many more decades do you want to waste? These problems are too urgent for that.
The truth that curi and myself are trying to get across to people here is… it is the unvarnished truth… know far more about epistemology than you. That again is an unvarnished truth
In which way all these statements are different from claiming that Jesus is Life Everlasting and that Jesus dying for our sins is an unvarnished truth?
Lots of people claim to have access to Truth—what makes you special?
We have given you criteria by which you can judge an AI: whether it is a UKC or not. As I explained in the OP, if something can create knowledge in some disparate domains then you have a UKC. We will be happy to declare it as such. You are under the false idea that AI will arrive by degrees, that there is such a thing as a partial UKC, and that knowledge creators lie on a continuum with respect to their potential. AI will no more arrive by degrees than our universal computers did. Universal computation came about through Turing in one fell swoop, and very nearly by Babbage a century before.
You underestimate the difficulties facing AI. You do not appreciate how truly different people are to other animals and to things like Alpha Zero.
EDIT: That was meant to be in reply to HungryHobo.
I basically agree with this, although 1) you are expressing it badly, 2) you are incorporating a true fact about the world into part of a nonsensical system, and 3) you should not be attempting to proselytize people.
Can we agree that I am not trying to prosthelytize anyone? I think people should use their own minds and judgment and I do not want people just to take my word for something. In particular, I think:
(1) All claims to truth should be carefully scrutinised for error.
(2) Claiming authority or pointing skyward to an authority is not a road to truth.
These claims should themselves be scrutinised for error. How could I hold these consistently with holding any kind of religion? I am open to the idea that I am wrong about these things too or that I am inconsistent.
I also think claims to truth should not be watered down for social reasons. That is to disrespect the truth. People can mistake not watering down the truth for religious fervour and arrogance.
No, I do not agree. You have been trying to proselytize people from the beginning and are still doing trying.
This is why you need to stop pointing to “Critical Rationalism” etc. as the road to truth.
First, you are wrong. You should not mention truths that it is harmful to mention in situations where it is harmful to mention them. Second, you are not “not watering down the truth”. You are making many nonsensical and erroneous claims and presenting them as though they were a unified system of absolute truth. This is quite definitely proselytism.
Yes, there are situations were it can be harmful to state the truth. But there is a common social problem where people do not say what they think or water it down for fear of causing offense. Or because they are looking to gain status. That was the context.
The truth that curi and myself are trying to get across to people here is that you are doing AI wrong and are wasting your lives. We are willing to be ridiculed for stating that but it is the unvarnished truth. AI has been stuck in a rut for decades with no progress. People kid themselves that the latest shiny toy like Alpha Zero is progress but it is not.
AI research has bad epistemology at its heart and this is holding back AI in the same way that quantum physics was held back by bad epistemology. David Deutsch had a substantial role in clearing that problem up in QM (although there are many who still do not accept multiple universes). He needed the epistemology of CR to do that. See The Fabric of Reality.
Curi, Deutsch, and myself know far more about epistemology than you. That again is an unvarnished truth. We are saying we have ideas that can help get AI moving. In particular CR. You are blinded by things you think are so but that cannot be. The myth of Induction for one.
AI is blocked—you have to consider that some of your deeply held ideas are false. How many more decades do you want to waste? These problems are too urgent for that.
In which way all these statements are different from claiming that Jesus is Life Everlasting and that Jesus dying for our sins is an unvarnished truth?
Lots of people claim to have access to Truth—what makes you special?