As with Torture vs. Specks, the point of this is to expose your decision procedure in a context where you don’t have to compare remotely commensurable utilities. Learning about the behavior of your preferences at such an extreme can help illuminate the right thing to do in more plausible contexts. (Thinking through Torture vs. Dust Specks helped mold my thinking on public policy, where it’s very tempting to weigh the salience of a large benefit to a few people against a small cost to everyone.)
EDIT: It’s the same heuristic that mathematicians often use when we’re pondering a conjecture— we try it in extreme or limiting cases to see if it breaks.
I haven’t studied this in nearly enough detail to be sure of what I’m saying, but it is my understanding that we quite possibly ARE wrong about the observable universe’s size, simply given the newness of the science saying there is an “observable universe”. Newton was wrong about gravity, but mostly in edge cases (pun intended); could Hubble et. al. be wrong about the observable universe’s size? Could we find a way to send messages faster than light (there are several theories and only one need work)? Or could we possibly cram more people into the universe than seems possible now due to simulations, building smaller but equivalent brains, or otherwise?
If the answer to ANY of these questions could be less, then we could indeed be wrong about the size observable universe (if observable is defined in terms of light even after we develop FTL communication, travel, or observation, then that’s stupid (like the current definition of clinical death) and you can replace “observable universe” with some similar phrase).
Besides, it may in fact be worth considering what happens outside the observable universe. We can make some predictions already, such as similar laws of physics and the continuing existence of anything which we could previously observe but has since passed over the cosmological event horizon. If people eventually become one of the things that passes over this event horizon, I’ll still care about them even though my caring can not affect them in any way.
Note again that I don’t know much about this, and I may be babbling nonsense for most of these points. But I do know that Hubble may be wrong, that humans keep doing things that they’d previously thought scientifically impossible, and that without an observable universe boundary there are still things which are causally unrelated to you in either direction but that you still may care about.
It seems to me that you can rephrase them in terms of the resources the universe actually does contain, without changing the problem. Take SPECKS: Suppose that instead of the 3^^^^3 potential SPECKing victims, we instead make as many humans as possible given the size of the universe, and take that as the victim population. Should we expect this to change the decision?
Yes, I think it will change the decision. You need a very large number of minuscule steps to go from specs to torture, and at each stage you need to decimate the number of people affected to justify inflicting the extra suffering on the few. It’s probably fair to assume the universe can’t support more than say 2^250 people, which doesn’t seem nearly enough.
These thought experiments all seem to require vastly more resources than the physical universe contains. Does that mean they don’t matter?
As with Torture vs. Specks, the point of this is to expose your decision procedure in a context where you don’t have to compare remotely commensurable utilities. Learning about the behavior of your preferences at such an extreme can help illuminate the right thing to do in more plausible contexts. (Thinking through Torture vs. Dust Specks helped mold my thinking on public policy, where it’s very tempting to weigh the salience of a large benefit to a few people against a small cost to everyone.)
EDIT: It’s the same heuristic that mathematicians often use when we’re pondering a conjecture— we try it in extreme or limiting cases to see if it breaks.
What if we’re wrong about the size of the universe?
But we aren’t wrong about the observable universe, does it really matter to us what happens outside our interaction range?
I haven’t studied this in nearly enough detail to be sure of what I’m saying, but it is my understanding that we quite possibly ARE wrong about the observable universe’s size, simply given the newness of the science saying there is an “observable universe”. Newton was wrong about gravity, but mostly in edge cases (pun intended); could Hubble et. al. be wrong about the observable universe’s size? Could we find a way to send messages faster than light (there are several theories and only one need work)? Or could we possibly cram more people into the universe than seems possible now due to simulations, building smaller but equivalent brains, or otherwise?
If the answer to ANY of these questions could be less, then we could indeed be wrong about the size observable universe (if observable is defined in terms of light even after we develop FTL communication, travel, or observation, then that’s stupid (like the current definition of clinical death) and you can replace “observable universe” with some similar phrase).
Besides, it may in fact be worth considering what happens outside the observable universe. We can make some predictions already, such as similar laws of physics and the continuing existence of anything which we could previously observe but has since passed over the cosmological event horizon. If people eventually become one of the things that passes over this event horizon, I’ll still care about them even though my caring can not affect them in any way.
Note again that I don’t know much about this, and I may be babbling nonsense for most of these points. But I do know that Hubble may be wrong, that humans keep doing things that they’d previously thought scientifically impossible, and that without an observable universe boundary there are still things which are causally unrelated to you in either direction but that you still may care about.
It seems to me that you can rephrase them in terms of the resources the universe actually does contain, without changing the problem. Take SPECKS: Suppose that instead of the 3^^^^3 potential SPECKing victims, we instead make as many humans as possible given the size of the universe, and take that as the victim population. Should we expect this to change the decision?
Yes, I think it will change the decision. You need a very large number of minuscule steps to go from specs to torture, and at each stage you need to decimate the number of people affected to justify inflicting the extra suffering on the few. It’s probably fair to assume the universe can’t support more than say 2^250 people, which doesn’t seem nearly enough.
You can increase the severity of the specking accordingly, though. Call it PINPRICKS, maybe?