I think this quote is the refutation in a nutshell.
And as Harry Potter puts it somewhere in MoR, if you don’t want to sicken and die right now, if you want live another day, then by induction, you want to live forever, whatever Deep Wisdom you come up with to persuade yourself of the contrary.
I know The Dragon-Tyrant has been linked already in this thread, but I think it’s worth repeating.
The point is that the evilness of death is so blatantly obvious that it is only possible to support the opposite by just making shit up. It’s like defending a claim to have a dragon in one’s garage. The moment you stop doing that, there’s no more argument to be had about it. People shouldn’t die.
That said, I think we often underestimate how many people do sort of want to die right now and are prevented from doing so by essentially deontological considerations, or the expectation of (and identification with) wanting to live in the future, or a combination of risk-aversion and fear of an afterlife (as per Shakespeare).
Such people, or people in that state, might genuinely consider the prospect of eventual death (at such time as their death is permitted) something to look forward to.
Of course, we might conclude that they have the wrong values and ought to be cured of their depression instead, but that’s different from concluding that they’re just making shit up.
Some people are in circumstances so dreadful that they quite rationally don’t want to go on. (My mother is 92 and definitely does not want heroic measures to be taken.) But on a large scale, the answer to that is to not get into such a state—to prolong not merely any sort of existence, but healthy existence. As far as I’m concerned, that’s part and parcel of life extension, and Swift’s Struldbrugs are just another mistaken objection to long life.
Sure, if I don’t want to live because my life is insufficiently healthy, one solution is to keep making me healthier until I change my mind, then extend my life.
More generally, if I don’t want to live because my life lacks some property X (of which health is one example, but not the only one), one solution is to provide me with X and then extend my life. I’m not sure I would consider the general problem of providing people with everything they lack to make life feel worth living to them be part and parcel of life extension, but it’s not clearly wrong to do so.
I think this quote is the refutation in a nutshell.
And as Harry Potter puts it somewhere in MoR, if you don’t want to sicken and die right now, if you want live another day, then by induction, you want to live forever, whatever Deep Wisdom you come up with to persuade yourself of the contrary.
I know The Dragon-Tyrant has been linked already in this thread, but I think it’s worth repeating.
The point is that the evilness of death is so blatantly obvious that it is only possible to support the opposite by just making shit up. It’s like defending a claim to have a dragon in one’s garage. The moment you stop doing that, there’s no more argument to be had about it. People shouldn’t die.
That said, I think we often underestimate how many people do sort of want to die right now and are prevented from doing so by essentially deontological considerations, or the expectation of (and identification with) wanting to live in the future, or a combination of risk-aversion and fear of an afterlife (as per Shakespeare).
Such people, or people in that state, might genuinely consider the prospect of eventual death (at such time as their death is permitted) something to look forward to.
Of course, we might conclude that they have the wrong values and ought to be cured of their depression instead, but that’s different from concluding that they’re just making shit up.
Some people are in circumstances so dreadful that they quite rationally don’t want to go on. (My mother is 92 and definitely does not want heroic measures to be taken.) But on a large scale, the answer to that is to not get into such a state—to prolong not merely any sort of existence, but healthy existence. As far as I’m concerned, that’s part and parcel of life extension, and Swift’s Struldbrugs are just another mistaken objection to long life.
Sure, if I don’t want to live because my life is insufficiently healthy, one solution is to keep making me healthier until I change my mind, then extend my life.
More generally, if I don’t want to live because my life lacks some property X (of which health is one example, but not the only one), one solution is to provide me with X and then extend my life. I’m not sure I would consider the general problem of providing people with everything they lack to make life feel worth living to them be part and parcel of life extension, but it’s not clearly wrong to do so.