When I read Killing Socrates, I had no idea it alluded to Said in any way. The point I took from it, was that it is important to treat both commentors and authors as responsible for the building process.
My limited point of view on Duncan_Sabien and Said is the following:
I really loved the above post by Duncan_Sabien. It was amazing, and on my comment on that post, they answered this. It felt reassuring and caring, and fitting for my comment,
I did really enjoy my brief interaction with Said as well. I wrote an idea, they answered with a valid, but much more solid critique of a specificity, shooting way above idea-level. Which made me first confused, then irritated, then angry, until I decided to just go for what I trulywanted to answer them, which was:
Yes, got it. Thanks for taking the time.
Which, I mean, looks pretty dismissive Said however, answered this:
Hah.
For what it’s worth, I do, actually, agree with the overall thrust of your suggestion. I have made similar suggestions myself, in the past… unfortunately, my understanding is that the LW team basically don’t think that anything like this is workable. I don’t think I agree with their reasoning, but they seem sufficiently firm in their conviction that I’ve mostly given up on trying to convince anyone that this sort of thing is a good idea.
(At one time, after the revival of Less Wrong, I hoped that the Personal / Frontpage distinction would serve a function similar to the one you describe. Unfortunately, the LW system design / community norms have been taken in a direction that makes it impossible for things to work that way. I understand that this, too, is a principled decision on the LW team’s part, but I think that it’s an unfortunate one.)
To which I didn’t answer, but not because I did not appreciate their answer, but just because it felt finished. It was a very different kind of interaction, but still one I value. The acknowledgment I read in the short “Hah.” is still touching to read.
The way I see it, Said and Duncan_Sabien are on very opposing ends of a spectrum. Chaotic Useful and Lawful Useful, respectively. I’ll describe them a bit more below.
Said is the ‘gentle’ Crocodile in the well-kept garden. If you want to go into the depths of the big pond, and you can’t deal with his bite, it should light up as a warning that there seems to be some incoherence between how ‘deep’ you want to go, and how deep you should go.
Duncan_Sabien is more of a ‘protective’ Husky. They want to focus on creating a perceived safe space for progress. Usually gentle, can get very verbal about what is right and wrong in their opinion, and want to make sure things are good.
(I’m sorry if that is offensive somehow, it wasn’t meant to simplify, but to add more info in a short amount of space)
Ironically, I believe they are pointing at and working on improving the exact same issues, with the only difference being the methods and form. Hopefully the focus and the response, from mods and users, will help pave a way forward.
Ideal scenario:
If I look at something of an ideal scenario, it would be that Said and Duncan_Sabien get together, hash it out (with mediators if need be) and then combine their efforts. That would be a great achievement, and one I would like to see here on LW. It would spell a step forward, especially towards higher understanding and progress between what can seem like entrenched points of view.
It reminds me of the front between left/right in politics, like why don’t they try to collaborate and create the best possible solution, together? But of course, they would disagree on how to collaborate and how to create a solution, but since they see different parts of reality from a different view-point, can’t that be complementary and not antagonistic?
Moreover, I believe they are veteran enough to be worthy of the effort. If they can resolve things, I assume it will have a cascading effect, and potentially resolve much underlying tension that has been part of this community for years. Not mentioning, give some great traction going forward.
400 comments… :)
When I read Killing Socrates, I had no idea it alluded to Said in any way. The point I took from it, was that it is important to treat both commentors and authors as responsible for the building process.
My limited point of view on Duncan_Sabien and Said is the following:
I really loved the above post by Duncan_Sabien. It was amazing, and on my comment on that post, they answered this. It felt reassuring and caring, and fitting for my comment,
I did really enjoy my brief interaction with Said as well. I wrote an idea, they answered with a valid, but much more solid critique of a specificity, shooting way above idea-level. Which made me first confused, then irritated, then angry, until I decided to just go for what I truly wanted to answer them, which was:
Which, I mean, looks pretty dismissive Said however, answered this:
To which I didn’t answer, but not because I did not appreciate their answer, but just because it felt finished. It was a very different kind of interaction, but still one I value. The acknowledgment I read in the short “Hah.” is still touching to read.
The way I see it, Said and Duncan_Sabien are on very opposing ends of a spectrum. Chaotic Useful and Lawful Useful, respectively. I’ll describe them a bit more below.
Said is the ‘gentle’ Crocodile in the well-kept garden. If you want to go into the depths of the big pond, and you can’t deal with his bite, it should light up as a warning that there seems to be some incoherence between how ‘deep’ you want to go, and how deep you should go.
Duncan_Sabien is more of a ‘protective’ Husky. They want to focus on creating a perceived safe space for progress. Usually gentle, can get very verbal about what is right and wrong in their opinion, and want to make sure things are good.
(I’m sorry if that is offensive somehow, it wasn’t meant to simplify, but to add more info in a short amount of space)
Ironically, I believe they are pointing at and working on improving the exact same issues, with the only difference being the methods and form. Hopefully the focus and the response, from mods and users, will help pave a way forward.
Ideal scenario:
If I look at something of an ideal scenario, it would be that Said and Duncan_Sabien get together, hash it out (with mediators if need be) and then combine their efforts. That would be a great achievement, and one I would like to see here on LW. It would spell a step forward, especially towards higher understanding and progress between what can seem like entrenched points of view.
It reminds me of the front between left/right in politics, like why don’t they try to collaborate and create the best possible solution, together? But of course, they would disagree on how to collaborate and how to create a solution, but since they see different parts of reality from a different view-point, can’t that be complementary and not antagonistic?
Moreover, I believe they are veteran enough to be worthy of the effort. If they can resolve things, I assume it will have a cascading effect, and potentially resolve much underlying tension that has been part of this community for years. Not mentioning, give some great traction going forward.
Kindly,
Caerulea-Lawrence