That would definitely work if the utility monster wanted to kill or enslave people just for kicks. I still stand by the idea we hammered out in the discussion there. Malicious preference shouldn’t count. The real problem arises when considering on how to split the various resources in the society between the monster and its inhabitants so they can fulfill their “neutral” preferences (I am using the terminology from that discussion).
The Utility Monster problem suggests the idea that one individual might be so good at using resources to satisfy its “neutral” preferences that it would be better to give all the resources to it instead of sharing them among everyone.
Let’s suppose the monster enjoys various activities that are “neutral,” they are not directly harmful to other people. But they do use up resources. How many resources should be given to the monster and how many should be given to other people? Should we give the monster everything and let everyone else starve to death, because it will get so much more enjoyment out of them? Should everyone be given else just enough resources to live a life barely worth living, and then give everything else to the monster? Should everyone else be given resources until they reach their satiation point and then the monster gets the rest?
It seems wrong to give everything to the monster, even though that would result in the most satisfied neutral preferences. It also seems wrong to give people just enough for lives barely worth living. It seems best to me to share so that everyone can live great lives, even if giving stuff to the monster would be best.
Limited resource use should be counted as indirect harm, surely.
If there are a finite amount of resources then you harm other people just by existing, because by using resources to live you are reducing the amount available for other people to use. By “limited” do you mean “resource use above a certain threshold?” What would that threshold be? Would it change depending on how many resources a given society has?
Are you suggesting that everyone is entitled to a certain level of life quality, and that any desires that would reduce that level of life quality if fulfilled should count as “malicious?” That is a line of thought that hadn’t fully occurred to me. It seems to have some similarities with prioritarianism.
You mean “barely worth celebrating”, surely?
Yes. I used the other term in the OP because I thought not everyone who read it would have read Eliezer’s essay and got stuck in the habit.
EDIT: When I said “you harm other people just by existing” that technically isn’t true in the present because we live in a non-malthusian world with a growing economy. Adding more people actually increases the amount of resources available to everyone because there are more people to do work. Assume, for the sake of the argument, that in this thought experiment the amount of resources available to a society is fixed.
That would definitely work if the utility monster wanted to kill or enslave people just for kicks. I still stand by the idea we hammered out in the discussion there. Malicious preference shouldn’t count. The real problem arises when considering on how to split the various resources in the society between the monster and its inhabitants so they can fulfill their “neutral” preferences (I am using the terminology from that discussion).
The Utility Monster problem suggests the idea that one individual might be so good at using resources to satisfy its “neutral” preferences that it would be better to give all the resources to it instead of sharing them among everyone.
Let’s suppose the monster enjoys various activities that are “neutral,” they are not directly harmful to other people. But they do use up resources. How many resources should be given to the monster and how many should be given to other people? Should we give the monster everything and let everyone else starve to death, because it will get so much more enjoyment out of them? Should everyone be given else just enough resources to live a life barely worth living, and then give everything else to the monster? Should everyone else be given resources until they reach their satiation point and then the monster gets the rest?
It seems wrong to give everything to the monster, even though that would result in the most satisfied neutral preferences. It also seems wrong to give people just enough for lives barely worth living. It seems best to me to share so that everyone can live great lives, even if giving stuff to the monster would be best.
What I said is
Limited resource use should be counted as indirect harm, surely. Now, the problem is how to arbitrate between multiple Resource Monsters.
I do not see any immediate problem with this approach.
You mean “barely worth celebrating”, surely?
If there are a finite amount of resources then you harm other people just by existing, because by using resources to live you are reducing the amount available for other people to use. By “limited” do you mean “resource use above a certain threshold?” What would that threshold be? Would it change depending on how many resources a given society has?
Are you suggesting that everyone is entitled to a certain level of life quality, and that any desires that would reduce that level of life quality if fulfilled should count as “malicious?” That is a line of thought that hadn’t fully occurred to me. It seems to have some similarities with prioritarianism.
Yes. I used the other term in the OP because I thought not everyone who read it would have read Eliezer’s essay and got stuck in the habit.
EDIT: When I said “you harm other people just by existing” that technically isn’t true in the present because we live in a non-malthusian world with a growing economy. Adding more people actually increases the amount of resources available to everyone because there are more people to do work. Assume, for the sake of the argument, that in this thought experiment the amount of resources available to a society is fixed.