I think I am unclear on whether this approach differs from a more traditional “Socratic” style dialogue, and if so, in what ways. Could you clarify?
Another thought that this post brings out, is that while I think techniques of this sort are useful in a number of ways, even beyond the direct dialogue itself (for example, in practicing the kind of lateral and analogy-based thinking required to fluidly keep up with the conversation while maintaining this style), there is clearly a limited set of opportunities for which they are suitable. Do you know of any existing “taxonomy” of conversational methods, classified with respect to the circumstances in which they are most effective?
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to ask these questions. I will paraphrase a little.
How does rhetorical aikido differ from well-established Socratic-style dialogue?
Socratic-style dialogue is a very broad umbrella. Pretty much any question-focused dialogue qualifies. A public schoolteacher asking a class of students “What do you think?” is both “Socratic” and ineffective at penetrating delusion.
The approach gestured at here is entirely within the domain of “Socratic”-style dialogue. However, it is far more specific. The techniques I practice and teach are laser-focused on improving rationality.
Here are a few examples of techniques I use and train, but which are not mandatory for a dialogue to be “Socratic”:
If, while asking questions, you are asked “what do you believe” in return, you must state exactly what you believe.
You yield as much overt frame to the other person as possible. This is especially the case with definitions. In all but the most egregious situations, you let the other person define terms.
There are basic principles about how minds work that I’m trying to gesture at. One of my primary objectives in the foundational stages is to get students to understand how the human mind lazily [in the computational sense of the word “lazily”] evaluates beliefs and explanations. Socrates himself was likely aware of these mechanics but, in my experience, most teachers using Socratic methods are not aware of them.
I use specific conversational techniques to draw attention to specific errors. Which brings us to….
Is there any existing “taxonomy” of conversational methods, classified with respect to the circumstances in which they are most effective?
It depends on your goal. There are established techniques for selling things, seducing people, telling stories, telling jokes, negotiating, and getting your paper accepted into an academic journal. Truth in Comedy: The Manual of Improvisation is a peerless manual for improvisation. But it’s not a rationalist handbook.
I have been assembling a list of mistakes and antidotes in my head, but I haven’t written it down (yet?).
Here are a few quick examples.
The way to get an us-vs-them persuasion-oriented rambler to notice they’re mistaken is via an Intellectual Turing Test. If they’re a Red and assume you’re a Blue, then you let them argue about why the Blues are wrong. After a while, you ask “What do you think I believe?” and you surprise them when they find out you’re not a Blue. They realized they wasted their reputation and both of your time. One of my favorite sessions with a student started with him arguing against the Blues. He was embarrassed to discover that I wasn’t a Blue. Then he spent an hour arguing about why I’m wrong for being a Green. The second time I asked “What do you think I believe?” was extra satisfying, because I had already warned him of the mistake he was making.
If someone is making careless mistakes because they don’t care about whether they’re right or wrong, you ask if you can publish the dialogue on the Internet. The earnest people clean up their act. The disingenuous blowhards slink away.
If someone does a Gish gallop, you ask them to place all their chips on the most important claim.
If someone says “Some people argue X” you ask “Do you argue X”? If yes, then they now have skin in the game. If no, then you can dismiss the argument.
Thank you for your reply and further explanation. Your examples are helpful, and on thinking about them, I’m led to wonder how these & other “techniques” serve the distinct goals of “Trying to arrive at The True Answer”, “Trying to show this person that they have incoherent beliefs, because they have failed to properly examine them”, and “Trying to converse in a manner that will engage this person, so that it has some real, hopefully positive, effect for them”—and possibly others.
I think I am unclear on whether this approach differs from a more traditional “Socratic” style dialogue, and if so, in what ways. Could you clarify?
Another thought that this post brings out, is that while I think techniques of this sort are useful in a number of ways, even beyond the direct dialogue itself (for example, in practicing the kind of lateral and analogy-based thinking required to fluidly keep up with the conversation while maintaining this style), there is clearly a limited set of opportunities for which they are suitable. Do you know of any existing “taxonomy” of conversational methods, classified with respect to the circumstances in which they are most effective?
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to ask these questions. I will paraphrase a little.
How does rhetorical aikido differ from well-established Socratic-style dialogue?
Socratic-style dialogue is a very broad umbrella. Pretty much any question-focused dialogue qualifies. A public schoolteacher asking a class of students “What do you think?” is both “Socratic” and ineffective at penetrating delusion.
The approach gestured at here is entirely within the domain of “Socratic”-style dialogue. However, it is far more specific. The techniques I practice and teach are laser-focused on improving rationality.
Here are a few examples of techniques I use and train, but which are not mandatory for a dialogue to be “Socratic”:
If, while asking questions, you are asked “what do you believe” in return, you must state exactly what you believe.
You yield as much overt frame to the other person as possible. This is especially the case with definitions. In all but the most egregious situations, you let the other person define terms.
There are basic principles about how minds work that I’m trying to gesture at. One of my primary objectives in the foundational stages is to get students to understand how the human mind lazily [in the computational sense of the word “lazily”] evaluates beliefs and explanations. Socrates himself was likely aware of these mechanics but, in my experience, most teachers using Socratic methods are not aware of them.
I use specific conversational techniques to draw attention to specific errors. Which brings us to….
Is there any existing “taxonomy” of conversational methods, classified with respect to the circumstances in which they are most effective?
It depends on your goal. There are established techniques for selling things, seducing people, telling stories, telling jokes, negotiating, and getting your paper accepted into an academic journal. Truth in Comedy: The Manual of Improvisation is a peerless manual for improvisation. But it’s not a rationalist handbook.
I have been assembling a list of mistakes and antidotes in my head, but I haven’t written it down (yet?).
Here are a few quick examples.
The way to get an us-vs-them persuasion-oriented rambler to notice they’re mistaken is via an Intellectual Turing Test. If they’re a Red and assume you’re a Blue, then you let them argue about why the Blues are wrong. After a while, you ask “What do you think I believe?” and you surprise them when they find out you’re not a Blue. They realized they wasted their reputation and both of your time. One of my favorite sessions with a student started with him arguing against the Blues. He was embarrassed to discover that I wasn’t a Blue. Then he spent an hour arguing about why I’m wrong for being a Green. The second time I asked “What do you think I believe?” was extra satisfying, because I had already warned him of the mistake he was making.
If someone is making careless mistakes because they don’t care about whether they’re right or wrong, you ask if you can publish the dialogue on the Internet. The earnest people clean up their act. The disingenuous blowhards slink away.
If someone does a Gish gallop, you ask them to place all their chips on the most important claim.
If someone says “Some people argue X” you ask “Do you argue X”? If yes, then they now have skin in the game. If no, then you can dismiss the argument.
Thank you for your reply and further explanation. Your examples are helpful, and on thinking about them, I’m led to wonder how these & other “techniques” serve the distinct goals of “Trying to arrive at The True Answer”, “Trying to show this person that they have incoherent beliefs, because they have failed to properly examine them”, and “Trying to converse in a manner that will engage this person, so that it has some real, hopefully positive, effect for them”—and possibly others.