TBH one of the things I always wonder about is not so much the “sidesism” as the “both.” How are people deciding what should count as a side, and why there should be two? And when should something no longer count as a side?
I mean, I get it in practice, there’s nothing this self-reflective going on at all and it’s all decided by inertia, FPTP voting, and revenue. I still would naively have expected more people on the audience side to have the realization that:
I have observed a transition. 12 years ago, the left-right split was based on many loosely correlated factors and strategic/inertial effects, creating bizarre situations like near perfect correlation between opinions on Gay Marriage and privatization of social security. I think at that time you could reason much better if you could recognize that the separation between left and right was not natural. I at least have a ton of cached arguments from this era because it became such a familiar dynamic.
Nowadays, I don’t think this old schema really applies, especially among the actual elected officers and party leadership. The effective left right split is mono-factor: you are right exactly in proportion to your personal loyalty to one Donald J. Trump, resulting in bizarre situations like Dick Cheney being classified as “Left.”
I think at that time you could reason much better if you could recognize that the separation between left and right was not natural.
I think you’re saying it was easier in the past to see unorthodox or contradictory views within parties because the wings were more clearly delineated. I’d agree, it was a divided time, but a less chaotic divided time.
The effective left right split is mono-factor: you are right exactly in proportion to your personal loyalty to one Donald J. Trump
Absolutely, it’s also bizarre regarding his tariff policy which is wholly anti-free market, that’s a point the left didn’t pick up on (because of the chaos I imagine) that was obvious to me. As a left-wing (pro-taxation) person myself who also believes in free markets, his approach is so anti-thetical to my own views, as if he took the last good idea on the right (free markets), and abandoned that in order to create a party based on all the bad ideas. This sort of contrarianism is something I’ve read Steven Pinker write about as a loyalty test (to despots and cult leaders)—the inducement to followers to knowingly lie or act contrary to their own interests as a statement of loyalty to each other through joint faith in the dear leader.
Good point, I guess all-sidesism would be more desirable, this would take the form of panels representing different experts, opinions or demographics. Some issues, like US politics do end up necessarily polarised though, given there are only two options, even if you begin with a panel—they did start with an anti-vax candidate too with RFK Jr (with the Ds and even the Rs being arguably pro-vax), but political expediency results in his being subsumed into the binary.
General elections necessarily do. Coverage of issues does not. Assignment of opinions in the press can be to people and ideologies without pretending everyone in a party shares or should share identical views.
I agree, it seems as though the incentives aren’t aligned that way, so it ends up incumbent upon the audience to distill nuance out of binary messaging, and to recognise the value of those who do present unique perspectives.
TBH one of the things I always wonder about is not so much the “sidesism” as the “both.” How are people deciding what should count as a side, and why there should be two? And when should something no longer count as a side?
I mean, I get it in practice, there’s nothing this self-reflective going on at all and it’s all decided by inertia, FPTP voting, and revenue. I still would naively have expected more people on the audience side to have the realization that:
I have observed a transition. 12 years ago, the left-right split was based on many loosely correlated factors and strategic/inertial effects, creating bizarre situations like near perfect correlation between opinions on Gay Marriage and privatization of social security. I think at that time you could reason much better if you could recognize that the separation between left and right was not natural. I at least have a ton of cached arguments from this era because it became such a familiar dynamic.
Nowadays, I don’t think this old schema really applies, especially among the actual elected officers and party leadership. The effective left right split is mono-factor: you are right exactly in proportion to your personal loyalty to one Donald J. Trump, resulting in bizarre situations like Dick Cheney being classified as “Left.”
Thanks Hastings,
I think you’re saying it was easier in the past to see unorthodox or contradictory views within parties because the wings were more clearly delineated. I’d agree, it was a divided time, but a less chaotic divided time.
Absolutely, it’s also bizarre regarding his tariff policy which is wholly anti-free market, that’s a point the left didn’t pick up on (because of the chaos I imagine) that was obvious to me. As a left-wing (pro-taxation) person myself who also believes in free markets, his approach is so anti-thetical to my own views, as if he took the last good idea on the right (free markets), and abandoned that in order to create a party based on all the bad ideas. This sort of contrarianism is something I’ve read Steven Pinker write about as a loyalty test (to despots and cult leaders)—the inducement to followers to knowingly lie or act contrary to their own interests as a statement of loyalty to each other through joint faith in the dear leader.
Good point, I guess all-sidesism would be more desirable, this would take the form of panels representing different experts, opinions or demographics. Some issues, like US politics do end up necessarily polarised though, given there are only two options, even if you begin with a panel—they did start with an anti-vax candidate too with RFK Jr (with the Ds and even the Rs being arguably pro-vax), but political expediency results in his being subsumed into the binary.
General elections necessarily do. Coverage of issues does not. Assignment of opinions in the press can be to people and ideologies without pretending everyone in a party shares or should share identical views.
I agree, it seems as though the incentives aren’t aligned that way, so it ends up incumbent upon the audience to distill nuance out of binary messaging, and to recognise the value of those who do present unique perspectives.