Edit: Note this statement will depend on what one means by “left-wing”. I interpret the statement to mean “the most natural cluster in thing-space that includes movements generally called ‘left-wing’ also includes fascism.”
The thing is that AFAIK fascism never described itself as left-wing. It sometimes describes itself as a third position, a mixture/improvement of both left-wing and right-wing ideas, but whenever it actually chose between the two it preferred to describe itself as right-wing.
It tends to be treated as “left-wing” only by those people who define left/right only by the criterion of statism—a treatment which really isn’t the historical usage...
It tends to be treated as “left-wing” only by those people who define left/right only by the criterion of statism—a treatment which really isn’t the historical usage
That part in bold should be nominated for understatement of the year.
I’m actually reading Sowell’s Intellectuals and Society right now, playing the game ‘record all instances where he criticizes conservatives or libertarians’ - so far 0.
Last night, I thought I could at least chalk up his criticism of Naziism & Italian fascism as instances 1 & 2, except he immediately launched into the standard argument that ‘no, actually those are socialisms don’t you see’. Oy vey.
Sowell is one of the best intellectuals in American conservatism right now, but that’s also clearly where he makes his home, which is disappointing from a LW perspective. The two books by him that I like best are Knowledge and Decisions and A Conflict of Visions. The first is, if I remember correctly, an updated explanation of Hayek’s insights, although the second ~60% of the book is spent on ‘historical trends’ and is probably about as biased as you would expect. The second is explicitly about politics, but its first chapter is tremendously insightful. (The latter sections of that book are basically more detailed repetition, and again I would expect the examples to be solidly conservative-leaning.)
You’ve definitively solved the issue of the political orientation of Nazism by merely noting the word “Socialism” in its title, just like a stereotypical American conservative does, without even the need to know anything about Otto and Gregor Strasser or how the left wing faction of the Nazi party was defeated, expunged and purged.
I was responding to the claim I quoted. If you’re going to intentionally misinterpret anything I write, I don’t see what the point of continuing this discussion.
The claim you quoted said “left-wing”, it didn’t say “Socialist”.
And the parts that you didn’t quote mentioned that fascism did sometimes describe as a mixture of both left-wing and right-wing ideas, just like “National Socialism” included the word “National” to appeal to right-wing nationalists, and “Socialism” to appeal to left-wingers.
If you want to make a rebuttal to my actual claim, find a place where Nazism or Fascism describes itself as “left-wing”—just left-wing, not “a response to both left and right” or “a synthesis of both left and right”, or indeed “National Socialist”.
The thing is that AFAIK fascism never described itself as left-wing. It sometimes describes itself as a third position, a mixture/improvement of both left-wing and right-wing ideas, but whenever it actually chose between the two it preferred to describe itself as right-wing.
It tends to be treated as “left-wing” only by those people who define left/right only by the criterion of statism—a treatment which really isn’t the historical usage...
That part in bold should be nominated for understatement of the year.
I’m actually reading Sowell’s Intellectuals and Society right now, playing the game ‘record all instances where he criticizes conservatives or libertarians’ - so far 0.
Last night, I thought I could at least chalk up his criticism of Naziism & Italian fascism as instances 1 & 2, except he immediately launched into the standard argument that ‘no, actually those are socialisms don’t you see’. Oy vey.
(It’s really not a good book so far.)
Sowell is one of the best intellectuals in American conservatism right now, but that’s also clearly where he makes his home, which is disappointing from a LW perspective. The two books by him that I like best are Knowledge and Decisions and A Conflict of Visions. The first is, if I remember correctly, an updated explanation of Hayek’s insights, although the second ~60% of the book is spent on ‘historical trends’ and is probably about as biased as you would expect. The second is explicitly about politics, but its first chapter is tremendously insightful. (The latter sections of that book are basically more detailed repetition, and again I would expect the examples to be solidly conservative-leaning.)
I wrote a short review explaining what I disliked enough that I didn’t bother finishing: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/417975794
National Socialism.
You’ve definitively solved the issue of the political orientation of Nazism by merely noting the word “Socialism” in its title, just like a stereotypical American conservative does, without even the need to know anything about Otto and Gregor Strasser or how the left wing faction of the Nazi party was defeated, expunged and purged.
I was responding to the claim I quoted. If you’re going to intentionally misinterpret anything I write, I don’t see what the point of continuing this discussion.
The claim you quoted said “left-wing”, it didn’t say “Socialist”.
And the parts that you didn’t quote mentioned that fascism did sometimes describe as a mixture of both left-wing and right-wing ideas, just like “National Socialism” included the word “National” to appeal to right-wing nationalists, and “Socialism” to appeal to left-wingers.
If you want to make a rebuttal to my actual claim, find a place where Nazism or Fascism describes itself as “left-wing”—just left-wing, not “a response to both left and right” or “a synthesis of both left and right”, or indeed “National Socialist”.
Nationalism is not limited to the right. Depending the time and place nationalism can be either right or left wing.