I just realized something. The wizarding world has a strong Taboo against the free sharing of information. Harry has an entire hieracy of explosive insights he can read into the wizengamots records untill they let Hermonie go to get him to shut up Okay, this actually needs him to bluff about having a fallback that publishes if he perishes, but consider:
If he tells them about the true patronus and the true nature of dementors, the regular patronus stops working. This destroys askaban.Not enough?
If he explains the silver / gold arbritage scheme the economy of the wizardry world goes vonky for a while. Not enough?
He can explain the fundemental principle behind alchemy with great clarity.
The trouble is that from the typical wizard’s perspective this doesn’t work- they’re much more likely to irattionally dismiss it as the babblings of a desperate child.
He can open by patronusing the dementor present into oblivion, after that, everything he says will be at least thought about, and once considered, you cannot unknow any of this stuff except by obliterating yourself.
you cannot unknow any of this stuff except by obliterating yourself.
This works too, but I think you meant obliviating :) Other than that, good point. Destroying the dementor present would be a good opening move for several different strategies—anything that requires him to be taken very seriously, really.
If his explanation about the nature of the patronus was believed, the active patronuses should dispel.
So if he demonstrated and convincingly explained his patronus and chose not to destroy the dementor he would be the sole person in the room with control over the creature.
EDIT:
The trouble is, that even if he manages to control the Wizengamot in this way, he can only control them for so long, as they remain in the room.
So he probably would have to rely on their status and/or ‘Most Ancient Tradition’ keeping them from fleeing the room or calling in reinforcements, while he threatens to release the dementor and/or the information.
(Note that he wouldn’t have to reveal his dementor-destroying ability this way, just his ‘perfect shield’.)
That would antagonize the wizengamot very, very badly. Not a good long term strategy, even if you intend to dissolve it. Destroying it, explaining, and letting them work through the logical implications on their own suffices. If most people lose the ability to halt dementors at all, and a few people gain the ability to destroy them outright, they are no longer usable tools of enforcement, and disposing of them all together becomes quite urgent.
Indeed. The Dementor is storywise too conveniently present not to destroy as a way to grab the Wizengamot’s attention—Harry having been established as being in the possession of Chekhov’s Gun. Certainly not sufficient in itself, as you said. Give it 0.8 as a part of the solution.
(As for potion-making, I doubt the information would be very inflammatory to this audience, but good point from OP about him being able to wonk their economy a bit.)
I’ve seen this ‘convenient dementor’ point a few times. But in canon, Dementors escort prisoners in other trials for serious offences, don’t they? Pretty sure I remember them doing so.
Do we know that the Wizengamot’s records are public knowledge, and that he can say whatever he wants while speaking before the Wizengamot? I assume they at least have some procedure to close discussion against a speaker’s will.
They dont need to be public—a roomful of aristocrats are exceedingly unlikely to submit to collective obliviation, and there are enough people and enough factions present that anything they all hear is not going to stay secret.
There are tradeoffs here—he can spill the beans on the dementors and the true patronus and probably come out with his reputation strengthened if he plays it right, - Patronus the dementor in the room out of existance, and then letting the wizengamot “compel” an explanation out of him would be wieved as the wizengamot shooting itself in the foot, so that leaves hims smelling like roses.
Escalating the strategy of “Tell the wizengamot things they dont want to know” beyond that is going to make him very unpopular very quickly, as the wizarding world is very heavily committed to information control, but it is an option.
I just realized something. The wizarding world has a strong Taboo against the free sharing of information. Harry has an entire hieracy of explosive insights he can read into the wizengamots records untill they let Hermonie go to get him to shut up Okay, this actually needs him to bluff about having a fallback that publishes if he perishes, but consider:
If he tells them about the true patronus and the true nature of dementors, the regular patronus stops working. This destroys askaban.Not enough?
If he explains the silver / gold arbritage scheme the economy of the wizardry world goes vonky for a while. Not enough?
He can explain the fundemental principle behind alchemy with great clarity.
And so on.
Or until they hit him with a Quietus to shut him up. Much simpler.
The trouble is that from the typical wizard’s perspective this doesn’t work- they’re much more likely to irattionally dismiss it as the babblings of a desperate child.
He can open by patronusing the dementor present into oblivion, after that, everything he says will be at least thought about, and once considered, you cannot unknow any of this stuff except by obliterating yourself.
Obliterating? That’s perhaps overkill!
This works too, but I think you meant obliviating :) Other than that, good point. Destroying the dementor present would be a good opening move for several different strategies—anything that requires him to be taken very seriously, really.
If his explanation about the nature of the patronus was believed, the active patronuses should dispel. So if he demonstrated and convincingly explained his patronus and chose not to destroy the dementor he would be the sole person in the room with control over the creature.
EDIT: The trouble is, that even if he manages to control the Wizengamot in this way, he can only control them for so long, as they remain in the room.
So he probably would have to rely on their status and/or ‘Most Ancient Tradition’ keeping them from fleeing the room or calling in reinforcements, while he threatens to release the dementor and/or the information.
(Note that he wouldn’t have to reveal his dementor-destroying ability this way, just his ‘perfect shield’.)
That would antagonize the wizengamot very, very badly. Not a good long term strategy, even if you intend to dissolve it. Destroying it, explaining, and letting them work through the logical implications on their own suffices. If most people lose the ability to halt dementors at all, and a few people gain the ability to destroy them outright, they are no longer usable tools of enforcement, and disposing of them all together becomes quite urgent.
Indeed. The Dementor is storywise too conveniently present not to destroy as a way to grab the Wizengamot’s attention—Harry having been established as being in the possession of Chekhov’s Gun. Certainly not sufficient in itself, as you said. Give it 0.8 as a part of the solution.
(As for potion-making, I doubt the information would be very inflammatory to this audience, but good point from OP about him being able to wonk their economy a bit.)
I’ve seen this ‘convenient dementor’ point a few times. But in canon, Dementors escort prisoners in other trials for serious offences, don’t they? Pretty sure I remember them doing so.
I don’t recall there being one visible in the Pensieve-memory of Bellatrix’s trial, at least not one that was present for the whole thing.
Okay, as far as I can tell that works...
Harry doesn’t even know Alchemy exists as a discipline, as far as I know. Or are you thinking of Potion-Making?
Do we know that the Wizengamot’s records are public knowledge, and that he can say whatever he wants while speaking before the Wizengamot? I assume they at least have some procedure to close discussion against a speaker’s will.
They dont need to be public—a roomful of aristocrats are exceedingly unlikely to submit to collective obliviation, and there are enough people and enough factions present that anything they all hear is not going to stay secret.
There are tradeoffs here—he can spill the beans on the dementors and the true patronus and probably come out with his reputation strengthened if he plays it right, - Patronus the dementor in the room out of existance, and then letting the wizengamot “compel” an explanation out of him would be wieved as the wizengamot shooting itself in the foot, so that leaves hims smelling like roses. Escalating the strategy of “Tell the wizengamot things they dont want to know” beyond that is going to make him very unpopular very quickly, as the wizarding world is very heavily committed to information control, but it is an option.