Snape’s plotting here is interesting, but I’m not sure what he is actually trying to accomplish.
Quick rundown of what we know:
Snape was the one who sent Hermione the notes on where to find bullies.
Snape destroyed those notes when asked to look for them.
He went through great efforts to obliviate everyone at SPHEW’s final battle.
Snape had a conversation with Quirrel where he had his ass handed to him. (either he was stupid when dealing with Quirrel, or wanted Quirrel to think he was stupid)
He is probably working outside of Dumbledore’s ordersl, and is definitely hiding things from Dumbledore.
After the SPHEW girls kept on winning he stopped the Slytherin bullies from advancing any farther.
So I suspect a few things:
Snape was the one who was forcing the repeated escalation of the SPHEW situation
Snape is actually working to help Harry somehow. (Because of his love for Lily)
Snape is not nearly so biased against muggleborns as he pretends to be. (Remember Lily was a muggleborn)
Snape is trying to restore the reputation of Slytherin house in much the same way as Harry. (He’s cutting down on bullying and is, in a way consistant with his character, making the hatred of muggleborns look stupid)
Now, if we ascribe his love for Lily as his primary motivation (Which “Sunk Costs” seems to support) , his support of Hermione, and his plotting to restore the reputation of Slytherin makes sense. What I don’t understand is why he needs to hide this from Dumbledore. Even if his motivations are counter to those of Dumbledore (I.E. He’s actually evil), all of these actions would cement Dumbledore’s trust in him. I can think of a few possible reasons:
Dumbledore thinks Hogwarts needs an evil racist Slytherin.
Dumbledore is a control freak and any plots that are not his are to be distrusted. (Seriously, this is Hogwarts, ancestral home of the gambit pileup)
Dumbledore doesn’t have the best interests of Hogwarts in mind.
Dumbledore would think that Snape’s methods (Making Slytherin look stupid in its current form, and hurting little girls in the process) are wrong.
Dumbledore is insane. (Like a pie)
None of these are particularly satisfying or convincing, hence why i’m throwing the question out there.
Edit: People have repeatedly pointed out that Snape’s attachment to Lily was either broken or reduced by Harry’s analysis of the situation, and that Snape’s kiss in Sunk Costs was a reflection of that, and I can’t help but agree.
I don’t believe Snape values his love for Lily, past or present. I believe Snape is scheming to his own ends and by his own mercilessly practical means. He’s not the best at it, but he’s left the chump train.
Snape forced the escalation in order to get justification to do exactly what he did at the end of the first scene of chapter 75, where the following describes him admonishing the top Slytherin bullies:
“You will do nothing,” hissed their Head of House. Severus Snape’s face was enraged, when he spoke small spots of spittle flew from his mouth, further dotting his already-dirtied robes. “You fools have done enough! You have embarrassed my House—lost to first-years—now you speak of embroiling noble Lords of the Wizengamot in your pathetic childish squabbles? I shall deal with this matter. You will not embarrass this House again, you will not risk embarrassing this House again! You are done with fighting witches, and if I hear otherwise—”
Snape has cut the head off the Slytherin Bullying Machine, intending to see the machine fall apart without it. The non-Slytherin bullies were probably never that organized (fucking Gryffindors), and I suppose are meant to sympathize with the little girls and de-value bullying behaviors over time. It may be intended that they will stop ‘naturally,’ once there are fewer Slytherin bullies to respond to.
In fact, Snape isn’t just behind the escalation, hestarteditall. Chapter 68 ends with Hermione thinking about who she could get as a mysterious wizard, though not in those terms, when she sees a flash of light. She thinks that light, and a little later a sound, is from Fawks follows it to her first bullies to beat at the beginning of chapter 69.
Just before Hermione hear Just Mike cry for help, we are given the following hint, alone as its own paragraph:
She never saw the phoenix.
She never saw the phoenix because there was no phoenix, only Snape.
Further, Snape was personally managing the escalation. In chapter 74, Dumbledore says the following about the battle of The Bully Jaime Astorga vs. Sugar And Spice And Everything Badass:
There is not enough magic in eight first-year witches all together to defeat such a foe. But you could not accept that, Harry, could not let Miss Granger learn her own lessons; and so you sent the Defense Professor to watch over them invisibly, and pierce Astorga’s shields when Daphne Greengrass struck at him—”
The text never counters this claim. We are never presented with evidence that eight determined first-years could defeat a single Jaime Astorga other than the narrative of the events themselves. And in the same chapter as that narrative, 72, we learn that the Mr. Astorga is “a promising upstart on the youth dueling circuit” and that he does not understand how his shield was pierced. Again, we are given no reason to doubt his claim that his shield should not have been pierced, except that it happens it was.
Is it more likely that Dumbledore and Mr. Astorga are wrong about the unlikeliness of that event, or that the event did not occur as it was described from Hannah Abbot’s perspective. Dumbledore has a long history of making heroes out of children, and Mr. Astorga was a competitive duelist. I suggest it is more likely that they were right, and Snape assisted S.P.H.E.W. in a wonderfully Slytherin fashion.
I don’t see any obvious points where Snape helped out in the battle where Hufflepuff loyalty resulted in Tonks Time and the Snowballing Lie in chapter 73. Maybe he didn’t always have to step in. And maybe he made the last bully standing (or falling down) drop his wand back in chapter 69. But even when he doesn’t ditry his hands he is playing both sides, guiding the bullies and S.P.H.E.W. toward each other and ensuring that S.P.H.E.W. wins.
I’d like to know what Snape had planned for the last battle, before he was interrupted. I would guess that was the last battle he intended to happen. I don’t know what he could have wanted to see next.
Anyway, after that Snape had the ammo he needed to pull the rug out from under the Syltherin bullies. And if he hurt Hermione at the end, and if he risked the emotional or even physical health of eight little girls, and if he humiliated his allies on the darker side of wizardry by shaming their children, why should he care? Snape is so Syltherin the hat spoke the instant it was on his head. His plans are cunning. His devotion to his ambition is complete.
Snape is Hermione’s mysterious old wizard. (He makes up for only being thirty-whatever by being extra mysterious.) He does not need to act with her interests in order to play this role. Dumbledore attempted to send HJPEV to live with abusive step-parents and even says the following back in chapter 68:
I am not Harry’s friend, alas, but only his mysterious old wizard.”
One interesting clue I noticed last night while re-reading HPMOR to my wife as a bed time story is that Snape is essentially ordered by Dumbledore to stop reading students’ minds as a condition of his blackmail-agreement with Harry (Chapter 18), but we see later that Snape is clearly still reading minds without permission when he reads Alissa Cornfoot’s mind while she is fantasizing about him (Chapter 28). Previously I hadn’t thought that there was any real reason for that interlude in Chapter 28, but now I see that it tells us information about how Snape doesn’t follow Dumbledore’s orders.
I’m unsure that is an accurate description of the text.
You are more or less right about chapter 18. First, Harry makes his demand regarding Snape:
“Ah… he’s also to stop reading students’ minds.”
Then there is this corresponding line within the compromise Dumbledore offers:
He will promise to only read minds when the safety of a student requires it.
We don’t observe this promise actually being made. And we aren’t even assured of when it would be made. A pointlessly legalistic take on the terms could be that Snape will make that promise atsomepointinhislife.
But I think it’s safe to say that the promise was made shortly thereafter.
I also think it is plausible that it has been followed. The closing of chapter 28 may be addressed by another quote from chapter 18:
“Common sense is often mistaken for Legilimency,” said Dumbledore.
Hormone-addled children are ill-equipped for subtly. I think the more telling thing from the scene in chapter 28 is that Snapedirectlyrejectedherinsteadofleavingherpining, as he had been left pining. Previously he regarded the pain of rejection as the worst possible thing. But after his conversation with HJPEV, and I guess some introspection or whatever, he understands his acceptance of that rejection was better than eternal uncertainty.
I read this as meaning that Dumbledore’s order that Snape stop reading minds is just to mollify Harry. Dumbledore reads students’ minds (I argue here that Dumbledore reads the Weasley twins’ minds), and hence doesn’t actually care whether Snape does the same.
Harry, of course, has no way of checking that Snape is following this order, so it’s safe for Dumbledore to cross his fingers under the table, so to speak.
Dumbledore never promised to stop reading student’s minds. Not int chapter 18 when he said Snape would make that promise or in chapter 20 when he is called on reading HJPEV’s mind.
Also, Dumbledore’s offered compromise to HJPEV was this:
He will promise to only read minds when the safety of a student requires it.
It is not difficult to argue that the safety of some student, somewhere requires constant readings of the minds of the Weasley twins.
I’d like to know what Snape had planned for the last battle, before he was interrupted. I would guess that was the last battle he intended to happen. I don’t know what he could have wanted to see next.
I believe Snape’s motivations are more personal than trying to help Slytherin House. He’s remembering how he was bullied by James, and his conversation about the topic with Harry prompted him to devise this scheme to fight bullying today. He’s basically looking for redemption, having perhaps abandoned his love for Lily after talking with Harry and also after the Interlude with the Confessor.
This explains why he’s starting this scheme now, rather than as soon as he became Head of Slytherin.
He’s hiding this from Dumbledore because Dumbledore explicitly acted against his plot: he tried to stop the SPHEW-bully fights, in the end by the drastic method of ordering Snape to disband them and publicly humiliate and punish Hermione. Dumbledore explained his actions and motivations several times to Harry.
Not really. Bullying is House-neutral; Slytherin and Gryffindor both bully each other as well as random other students. Note the heavy non-Slytherin presence at the last bully battle, and note that James Potter was in Gryffindor. And Quirrelmort, who was (for the sake of argument) in Slytherin, spoke of how much he once hated bullies.
How do you reconcile the scheme being conducted by Snape with one of the main victims being Hermione? This scheme could plausibly end in her death or lifelong imprisonment in Azkaban (a slower death). He had previously tried to help Hermione in an embarrassing way (and doesn’t she resemble Lily in being Muggle-born?).
I wasn’t talking about the murder attempt story, and I don’t believe Snape’s behind it anyway (he’s the most likely suspect after Quirrel, but he’s not really very likely at all IMO). I meant Snape’s scheme to stop bullying in Hogwarts—which is what Jello_Raptor posted about.
I would put Lucius up there as a suspect or accomplice: he loves his son, and was noticeably offended when he saw Hermione beat him in magic. Purebloods also have a history of thinking of muggleborns as not-people (see Harry and Draco talking about Luna on the train), so he wouldn’t have any moral compunctions getting in the way of hurting Hermione. He was also at the school at the time, so he has almost as much opportunity as the rest of them.
And wouldn’t that just be a perfect rationality lesson? Eliezer can talk about how Lucius is blinded by perceived threats to his beliefs, thereby putting his son and an innocent girl in danger.
Of course, I really hope that it’s Quirrel instead, if only because it would be impossible to convict Lucius.
He was also at the school at the time, so he has almost as much opportunity as the rest of them.
He hasn’t been at school during the various times H&C appeared, that we know of.
(Edit: retracted: And Eliezer’s Author’s Notes have confirmed that Harry explanation in the latest chapter is correct (False Memory Charm to make Hermione suspect Draco, then months of obsession, then more FMCs about the duel and Obliviating Hermione regarding the original FMC.) )
Edited to add: See comment below; I probably misinterpreted the Author’s Notes. Also, I admit it’s possible Lucius has been in the school without us knowing explicitly every time, since he’s on the board of governors.
Anything you think will be completely inexplicable to the readers, probably won’t be—they know less background info than you, so where you see a single huge missing fact you haven’t yet revealed, they see a plentiful bag of possible interpretations. (Discovered when I compared all the reviewers’ interpretations of the Wham Line at the end of 78, to the actual interpretation revealed in 79.) [my highlighting]
Edited to add: I thought that referred to interpretation of “why did Hermione try to murder Draco? Why was she convinced Draco was plotting against her?”
But I see now that it refers to interpretations of the Wham Line specifically. So it more likely means interpretations of “how did Hermione try to murder Draco?” Or even, “what does the accusation that she tried to murder him mean? Did she really try? Or is this a combined Hermione-Draco plot to flush out whoever is manipulating her?”
I take it others adopt the second reading. It’s apparently the intended one. I retract my claim.
Thanks for asking me to quote and so forcing me to reevaluate my evidence. Upvoted!
Prediction: Snape’s plan will zig-zag in some unforeseen direction (possibly through using Harry as a catspaw by giving him the right info at the right time) so as to save Hermione. Snape knew that the Hermione + Draco friendship was unlikely to survive the scrutiny of Lord Malfoy, so as an ersatz Lily + Snape, he is going to try and help Hermione and Draco by bringing the issue to a head and then resolving it in some brilliant way that this comment space is too narrow to contain.
Estimated probability: ~35%
(I’d say lower probability, but Snape is the obvious villain right now based on what we know about him destroying the notes, so unless he really is the villain, it’s a misdirect, and his plan does not involve Hermione getting wand broken/enhanced interrogation/eternal noogies/other undesirable outcome.)
Edit: Disregard this, it was a fun theory, but I think I’m wrong about Snape for reasons below.
I’d say lower probability, but Snape is the obvious villain right now based on what we know about him destroying the notes
Wait, how is this relevant? Destroying the notes is just about cleaning up his SPHEW-related tracks (due to his apparent embarrassment at being a soft touch w/r/t bullying) now that Hermione and her notes are under great scrutiny as possibly being related to her framing.
And in fact, I’d say the notes are evidence against. If Snape had been plotting this all along, one might expect the notes to have been destroyed before the incident is uncovered, say after Hermione left for the duel, since Snape would not be able to guarantee he’d be assigned to look for the notes, that he would be alone or unobserved in every way, etc. If you predict an investigation will find dangerous papers you no longer need, you don’t wait until the investigation starts!
I don’t see Snape’s motives the same way. Here’s why I think he’s the obvious villain (if my above ‘twist’ is wrong :/):
We know he was behind the plot with SPHEW as the puppet master, and that it centered around Hermione. As a result of his involvement, the bullying situation escalated until Dumbledore had to end it. If not for Malfoy’s involvement at the cafeteria, Hermione would have ended her anti-bullying crusade disgraced, embarrassed, and powerless. The fight with the 7th year had the potential to end things in this way with Hermione as well, but it did not due to sheer luck. It would be poor planning on Snape’s part if he had wanted to help SPHEW in its fight. His presence at the last big fight is not evidence either way; he could have been there to bolster the slytherins or help SPHEW.
In any event, if we look at Snape’s plotting in this light, there are now two people plotting against Hermione if H&C is not Snape. This does not make too much sense to me (from a who benefits standpoint) unless you consider Lucius as an option, but he loves Draco and would not plan something that might kill him.
Destroying the notes at the earliest opportunity is optimal, but the risk of being detected by Dumbledore OR Quirrell OR the Wards OR the Marauders’ Map OR <competent time-turned investigator if the plan doesn’t work> is significant if he tried to do so the night of the duel. His window of opportunity is not too large either, because Hermione would notice if they were destroyed too long before the duel. Perhaps Snape went ahead with his plan, confident in his ability as a Slytherin to maneuver the room full of shocked people into letting him search Hermione’s room?
((Postscript: After I’m done typing all of this out, it occurs to me that I may have latched too strongly onto this theory and am now defending it because it’s a pet theory and not because it’s the best theory. I don’t think that this is the case, but that’s how pet theories feel ‘from the inside’ anyway. Bleah.))
The fight with the 7th year had the potential to end things in this way with Hermione as well, but it did not due to sheer luck. It would be poor planning on Snape’s part if he had wanted to help SPHEW in its fight. His presence at the last big fight is not evidence either way; he could have been there to bolster the slytherins or help SPHEW.
I think it was pretty clear that he was there to help SPHEW. That makes sense given his memory charming of everyone involved and it was (very) heavily implied that he was helping them in other battles.
Snape is over Lily. He’s been coming to grips with losing his love for Lily ever since Harry gave Snape his (incorrect) explanation for Lily’s treatment of him. The moment he kissed Rianne is the moment he finally decided to stop living and grieving for Lily and start living for himself.
The question is what it means for him to live for himself. Dumbledore’s trust in Snape is based on his knowledge of Snape’s undying love for Lily. If Dumbledore were to find out that that love no longer exists, he would (gently, perhaps) kick Snape out of the Fellowship. He would know that there was no longer any reason to trust him. And if Snape has gotten over Lily, he’ll probably feel no real compulsion to help Harry in any particular way.
Quirrell, being a smarter Voldemort, knows what was driving Snape when he was working for Dumbledore, and he now knows that it’s driving Snape no longer. That’s why he had that little conversation with him in the woods; he knows that Snape is now a free agent who might once again be a blood purist loyal to Voldemort.
Voldemort would not likely welcome Snape back into his fold once Voldie reveals himself, but now that he knows Snape’s loyalties are up for grabs, he won’t hesitate to manipulate him and use him however he can until then.
We’re told so during their conversation in the woods.
No, there is only one person who holds so much power over you, and who would be most perturbed to find you executing any plot without his knowledge. Your true and hidden master, Albus Dumbledore.”
“What?” hissed the Potions Master, the anger plain upon his face.
“But now, it seems, you are moving on your own; and so I find myself most intrigued as to what you could possibly be doing, and why.”
Quirrell may not know about his love for Lily, but I consider that highly unlikely, since Snape apparently still asked Voldemort not to kill her. Quirrellmort would certainly have put two and two together by now.
But that passage explicitly tells us that Quirrell knows that Snape is no longer acting under Dumbledore’s orders.
Snape didn’t make an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry. He makes one with Narcissa in the sixth book, promising to help Draco in his plot to kill Dumbledore. But Snape’s protection of Harry in canon is always grounded in his love for Lily.
I can’t see clearly why Snape is being presented as a likely hidden ally of SPHEW.
Without doubt, he involved himself in the group by providing information on where and when to find bullying, but this led to an escalation of hostilities rather than reducing bullying. This culminated in a massive confrontation during which he acted mysteriously, and by no means clearly in SPHEW’s interests (I suspect the myriad memory charms were to hide/obfuscate his prior manipulation of almost all of those present!).
The only way in which he openly acted on the matter was to punish and publicly humiliate Hermione.
Snape is not just a tragic lover of a murdered muggleborn—he is a very bitter and emotionally stunted person, and a major bully in his own right up until his actions were curbed through Harry’s influence. The idea that he would be on a personal crusade against bullying seems (to my reading) to go against almost every aspect of his character as presented so far in the fic.
If asked to speculate, I would suggest that:
Snape intentionally escalated the SPHEW/bully situation, and used the final brouhaha as an opportunity to trample Hermione when the bullies failed to do it for him.
He has observed the warming in relations between Hermione and Draco, and decided it had to be stopped—preferably by making each of them betray (or seem to) the trust of the other.
He decided that his own handling of the SPHEW situation had been too clumsy and ineffective—he needed to make Hermione herself a villain if he wanted her more permanently dealt with.
My main uncertainty is why Snape would pick Hermione in particular to target (I haven’t done a complete re-read for a few months, so I may be remembering events a bit ‘selectively’ - if I am being to mistrustful of Snape, I would love to see some references to points in the text where any of my interpretation is plausibly contradicted.
It wasn’t Snape’s choice to humiliate Hermione publicly — that was Dumbledore’s decision, making use of Snape’s “evil potions master” persona. Note that none of the other professors speak up, except for Quirrell, who is a temporary hire and need not follow Dumbledore’s direction. Minerva doesn’t even show up, presumably so that she doesn’t have to sit and keep her mouth shut.
Dumbledore explains to Harry in chapter 77 that Hermione had to be seen to lose publicly in order to de-escalate the conflict with Slytherin. Dumbledore doesn’t actually know that Snape was involved in escalating the conflict.
I’m still not sure why Snape wanted to escalate conflict between the bullies and SPHEW, but regardless, we can’t look at his humiliation of Hermione as any evidence of his motives, because it’s not actually his move.
I’m still not sure why Snape wanted to escalate conflict between the bullies and SPHEW, but regardless, we can’t look at his humiliation of Hermione as any evidence of his motives, because it’s not actually his move.
I suspect it’s because we wanted SPHEW to really go after bullies and wasn’t a competent enough plotter to foresee what would happen.
Snape’s been acting as Hermione’s protector, not as her adversary. (And without telling Dumbledore about it!)
From Chapter 72:
Jaime Astorga, seventh-year of Slytherin, and until recently considered a promising upstart on the youth dueling circuit, stood ramrod straight in Professor Snape’s office, with his teeth clenched tight and sweat trickling down his spine.
“I distinctly recall,” said the Head of his House in a sardonic drawl, “that I warned you, and a number of others this very morning, that there were certain first-year girls who might prove annoying, if a fighter were incautious and allowed himself to be taken by surprise.”
Professor Snape stalked in a slow circle around him.
“I—” said Jaime, as more sweat beaded on his forehead. He knew how ridiculous it sounded, how much of a pathetic excuse. “Sir, they shouldn’t have been able to—” One first-year-girl shouldn’t have been able to break his Protego, no matter what sort of ancient Charm she used—Greengrass must have had help -
But it was very clear that his Head of House wouldn’t believe that.
“Oh, I quite agree,” murmured Snape in a low tone, instinct with menace. “They shouldn’t have. I begin to wonder if Mr. Malfoy, whatever his plotting, has a point, Astorga. It cannot be good for the repute of Slytherin’s House if our fighters, rather than demonstrating their strength, lose to little girls!” Snape’s voice had risen. “It is well that you had the good taste to be defeated by a little girl who is a fellow Slytherin of a Noble House, Astorga, or I would deduct points from you myself!”
Jaime Astorga’s fists clenched at his side, but he couldn’t think of a thing to say.
It was some time before Jaime Astorga was allowed to leave the presence of his Head of House.
And afterward, only the walls, the floor, and the ceiling saw Severus Snape’s smile.
From Chapter 74:
The wands around the perimeter aimed again, low enough that their enemies wouldn’t hit each other if they missed.
And then another male voice, with a similar buzz accompanying it, suddenly said “Homenum Revelio!”
An instant later there was another massive volley of shieldbreakers and hexes, fired on reflex at the suddenly revealed figure, shattering the shields which had almost immediately begun to form around it -
And then, as that same figure fell to the ground, a stunned silence.
“Professor Snape?” said the second voice. “He’s the one who’s been interfering?”
It was the Potions Master of Hogwarts who now lay unconscious on the stone floor, the dirt-spotted robes stirring for a final moment before they settled in place, his fallen hand outstretched toward where his wand was slowly rolling away.
“No,” said the first male voice, now sounding a bit more uncertain. Then it rallied, “No, that can’t possibly be it. He heard us passing the word, of course, and came along to make sure nobody screwed it up again. We’ll wake him up afterward and apologize and he’ll Memory-Charm the children so they don’t remember, he’s a Professor so he can do that. Anyway, we should make sure we’re really alone now. Veritas Oculum!”
Snape’s plotting here is interesting, but I’m not sure what he is actually trying to accomplish.
Quick rundown of what we know:
Snape was the one who sent Hermione the notes on where to find bullies.
Snape destroyed those notes when asked to look for them.
He went through great efforts to obliviate everyone at SPHEW’s final battle.
Snape had a conversation with Quirrel where he had his ass handed to him. (either he was stupid when dealing with Quirrel, or wanted Quirrel to think he was stupid)
He is probably working outside of Dumbledore’s ordersl, and is definitely hiding things from Dumbledore.
After the SPHEW girls kept on winning he stopped the Slytherin bullies from advancing any farther.
So I suspect a few things:
Snape was the one who was forcing the repeated escalation of the SPHEW situation
Snape is actually working to help Harry somehow. (Because of his love for Lily)
Snape is not nearly so biased against muggleborns as he pretends to be. (Remember Lily was a muggleborn)
Snape is trying to restore the reputation of Slytherin house in much the same way as Harry. (He’s cutting down on bullying and is, in a way consistant with his character, making the hatred of muggleborns look stupid)
Now, if we ascribe his love for Lily as his primary motivation (Which “Sunk Costs” seems to support) , his support of Hermione, and his plotting to restore the reputation of Slytherin makes sense. What I don’t understand is why he needs to hide this from Dumbledore. Even if his motivations are counter to those of Dumbledore (I.E. He’s actually evil), all of these actions would cement Dumbledore’s trust in him. I can think of a few possible reasons:
Dumbledore thinks Hogwarts needs an evil racist Slytherin.
Dumbledore is a control freak and any plots that are not his are to be distrusted. (Seriously, this is Hogwarts, ancestral home of the gambit pileup)
Dumbledore doesn’t have the best interests of Hogwarts in mind.
Dumbledore would think that Snape’s methods (Making Slytherin look stupid in its current form, and hurting little girls in the process) are wrong.
Dumbledore is insane. (Like a pie)
None of these are particularly satisfying or convincing, hence why i’m throwing the question out there.
Edit: People have repeatedly pointed out that Snape’s attachment to Lily was either broken or reduced by Harry’s analysis of the situation, and that Snape’s kiss in Sunk Costs was a reflection of that, and I can’t help but agree.
I don’t believe Snape values his love for Lily, past or present. I believe Snape is scheming to his own ends and by his own mercilessly practical means. He’s not the best at it, but he’s left the chump train.
Snape forced the escalation in order to get justification to do exactly what he did at the end of the first scene of chapter 75, where the following describes him admonishing the top Slytherin bullies:
Snape has cut the head off the Slytherin Bullying Machine, intending to see the machine fall apart without it. The non-Slytherin bullies were probably never that organized (fucking Gryffindors), and I suppose are meant to sympathize with the little girls and de-value bullying behaviors over time. It may be intended that they will stop ‘naturally,’ once there are fewer Slytherin bullies to respond to.
In fact, Snape isn’t just behind the escalation, he started it all. Chapter 68 ends with Hermione thinking about who she could get as a mysterious wizard, though not in those terms, when she sees a flash of light. She thinks that light, and a little later a sound, is from Fawks follows it to her first bullies to beat at the beginning of chapter 69.
Just before Hermione hear Just Mike cry for help, we are given the following hint, alone as its own paragraph:
She never saw the phoenix because there was no phoenix, only Snape.
Further, Snape was personally managing the escalation. In chapter 74, Dumbledore says the following about the battle of The Bully Jaime Astorga vs. Sugar And Spice And Everything Badass:
The text never counters this claim. We are never presented with evidence that eight determined first-years could defeat a single Jaime Astorga other than the narrative of the events themselves. And in the same chapter as that narrative, 72, we learn that the Mr. Astorga is “a promising upstart on the youth dueling circuit” and that he does not understand how his shield was pierced. Again, we are given no reason to doubt his claim that his shield should not have been pierced, except that it happens it was.
Is it more likely that Dumbledore and Mr. Astorga are wrong about the unlikeliness of that event, or that the event did not occur as it was described from Hannah Abbot’s perspective. Dumbledore has a long history of making heroes out of children, and Mr. Astorga was a competitive duelist. I suggest it is more likely that they were right, and Snape assisted S.P.H.E.W. in a wonderfully Slytherin fashion.
I don’t see any obvious points where Snape helped out in the battle where Hufflepuff loyalty resulted in Tonks Time and the Snowballing Lie in chapter 73. Maybe he didn’t always have to step in. And maybe he made the last bully standing (or falling down) drop his wand back in chapter 69. But even when he doesn’t ditry his hands he is playing both sides, guiding the bullies and S.P.H.E.W. toward each other and ensuring that S.P.H.E.W. wins.
I’d like to know what Snape had planned for the last battle, before he was interrupted. I would guess that was the last battle he intended to happen. I don’t know what he could have wanted to see next.
Anyway, after that Snape had the ammo he needed to pull the rug out from under the Syltherin bullies. And if he hurt Hermione at the end, and if he risked the emotional or even physical health of eight little girls, and if he humiliated his allies on the darker side of wizardry by shaming their children, why should he care? Snape is so Syltherin the hat spoke the instant it was on his head. His plans are cunning. His devotion to his ambition is complete.
Snape is Hermione’s mysterious old wizard. (He makes up for only being thirty-whatever by being extra mysterious.) He does not need to act with her interests in order to play this role. Dumbledore attempted to send HJPEV to live with abusive step-parents and even says the following back in chapter 68:
One interesting clue I noticed last night while re-reading HPMOR to my wife as a bed time story is that Snape is essentially ordered by Dumbledore to stop reading students’ minds as a condition of his blackmail-agreement with Harry (Chapter 18), but we see later that Snape is clearly still reading minds without permission when he reads Alissa Cornfoot’s mind while she is fantasizing about him (Chapter 28). Previously I hadn’t thought that there was any real reason for that interlude in Chapter 28, but now I see that it tells us information about how Snape doesn’t follow Dumbledore’s orders.
I’m unsure that is an accurate description of the text.
You are more or less right about chapter 18. First, Harry makes his demand regarding Snape:
Then there is this corresponding line within the compromise Dumbledore offers:
We don’t observe this promise actually being made. And we aren’t even assured of when it would be made. A pointlessly legalistic take on the terms could be that Snape will make that promise at some point in his life.
But I think it’s safe to say that the promise was made shortly thereafter.
I also think it is plausible that it has been followed. The closing of chapter 28 may be addressed by another quote from chapter 18:
Hormone-addled children are ill-equipped for subtly. I think the more telling thing from the scene in chapter 28 is that Snape directly rejected her instead of leaving her pining, as he had been left pining. Previously he regarded the pain of rejection as the worst possible thing. But after his conversation with HJPEV, and I guess some introspection or whatever, he understands his acceptance of that rejection was better than eternal uncertainty.
(emphasis added as edit)
I read this as meaning that Dumbledore’s order that Snape stop reading minds is just to mollify Harry. Dumbledore reads students’ minds (I argue here that Dumbledore reads the Weasley twins’ minds), and hence doesn’t actually care whether Snape does the same.
Harry, of course, has no way of checking that Snape is following this order, so it’s safe for Dumbledore to cross his fingers under the table, so to speak.
Dumbledore never promised to stop reading student’s minds. Not int chapter 18 when he said Snape would make that promise or in chapter 20 when he is called on reading HJPEV’s mind.
Also, Dumbledore’s offered compromise to HJPEV was this:
It is not difficult to argue that the safety of some student, somewhere requires constant readings of the minds of the Weasley twins.
Agreed, but I thought it was heavily implied in Interlude with the Confessor that he had assigned Rianne Felthorne the task of assisting them.
Shaming The Mob, I suspect.
I believe Snape’s motivations are more personal than trying to help Slytherin House. He’s remembering how he was bullied by James, and his conversation about the topic with Harry prompted him to devise this scheme to fight bullying today. He’s basically looking for redemption, having perhaps abandoned his love for Lily after talking with Harry and also after the Interlude with the Confessor.
This explains why he’s starting this scheme now, rather than as soon as he became Head of Slytherin.
He’s hiding this from Dumbledore because Dumbledore explicitly acted against his plot: he tried to stop the SPHEW-bully fights, in the end by the drastic method of ordering Snape to disband them and publicly humiliate and punish Hermione. Dumbledore explained his actions and motivations several times to Harry.
Point, though wanting to curb bullying, and end the racism amounts to nearly the same thing as wanting to redeem Slytherin.
Not really. Bullying is House-neutral; Slytherin and Gryffindor both bully each other as well as random other students. Note the heavy non-Slytherin presence at the last bully battle, and note that James Potter was in Gryffindor. And Quirrelmort, who was (for the sake of argument) in Slytherin, spoke of how much he once hated bullies.
How do you reconcile the scheme being conducted by Snape with one of the main victims being Hermione? This scheme could plausibly end in her death or lifelong imprisonment in Azkaban (a slower death). He had previously tried to help Hermione in an embarrassing way (and doesn’t she resemble Lily in being Muggle-born?).
I wasn’t talking about the murder attempt story, and I don’t believe Snape’s behind it anyway (he’s the most likely suspect after Quirrel, but he’s not really very likely at all IMO). I meant Snape’s scheme to stop bullying in Hogwarts—which is what Jello_Raptor posted about.
I would put Lucius up there as a suspect or accomplice: he loves his son, and was noticeably offended when he saw Hermione beat him in magic. Purebloods also have a history of thinking of muggleborns as not-people (see Harry and Draco talking about Luna on the train), so he wouldn’t have any moral compunctions getting in the way of hurting Hermione. He was also at the school at the time, so he has almost as much opportunity as the rest of them.
And wouldn’t that just be a perfect rationality lesson? Eliezer can talk about how Lucius is blinded by perceived threats to his beliefs, thereby putting his son and an innocent girl in danger.
Of course, I really hope that it’s Quirrel instead, if only because it would be impossible to convict Lucius.
He hasn’t been at school during the various times H&C appeared, that we know of.
(Edit: retracted: And Eliezer’s Author’s Notes have confirmed that Harry explanation in the latest chapter is correct (False Memory Charm to make Hermione suspect Draco, then months of obsession, then more FMCs about the duel and Obliviating Hermione regarding the original FMC.) )
Edited to add: See comment below; I probably misinterpreted the Author’s Notes. Also, I admit it’s possible Lucius has been in the school without us knowing explicitly every time, since he’s on the board of governors.
Could you do me a favor and quote the exact line that made you think this?
Quoting A/N chapter 79:
Edited to add: I thought that referred to interpretation of “why did Hermione try to murder Draco? Why was she convinced Draco was plotting against her?”
But I see now that it refers to interpretations of the Wham Line specifically. So it more likely means interpretations of “how did Hermione try to murder Draco?” Or even, “what does the accusation that she tried to murder him mean? Did she really try? Or is this a combined Hermione-Draco plot to flush out whoever is manipulating her?”
I take it others adopt the second reading. It’s apparently the intended one. I retract my claim.
Thanks for asking me to quote and so forcing me to reevaluate my evidence. Upvoted!
Prediction: Snape’s plan will zig-zag in some unforeseen direction (possibly through using Harry as a catspaw by giving him the right info at the right time) so as to save Hermione. Snape knew that the Hermione + Draco friendship was unlikely to survive the scrutiny of Lord Malfoy, so as an ersatz Lily + Snape, he is going to try and help Hermione and Draco by bringing the issue to a head and then resolving it in some brilliant way that this comment space is too narrow to contain.
Estimated probability: ~35%
(I’d say lower probability, but Snape is the obvious villain right now based on what we know about him destroying the notes, so unless he really is the villain, it’s a misdirect, and his plan does not involve Hermione getting wand broken/enhanced interrogation/eternal noogies/other undesirable outcome.)
Edit: Disregard this, it was a fun theory, but I think I’m wrong about Snape for reasons below.
Wait, how is this relevant? Destroying the notes is just about cleaning up his SPHEW-related tracks (due to his apparent embarrassment at being a soft touch w/r/t bullying) now that Hermione and her notes are under great scrutiny as possibly being related to her framing.
And in fact, I’d say the notes are evidence against. If Snape had been plotting this all along, one might expect the notes to have been destroyed before the incident is uncovered, say after Hermione left for the duel, since Snape would not be able to guarantee he’d be assigned to look for the notes, that he would be alone or unobserved in every way, etc. If you predict an investigation will find dangerous papers you no longer need, you don’t wait until the investigation starts!
I don’t see Snape’s motives the same way. Here’s why I think he’s the obvious villain (if my above ‘twist’ is wrong :/):
We know he was behind the plot with SPHEW as the puppet master, and that it centered around Hermione. As a result of his involvement, the bullying situation escalated until Dumbledore had to end it. If not for Malfoy’s involvement at the cafeteria, Hermione would have ended her anti-bullying crusade disgraced, embarrassed, and powerless. The fight with the 7th year had the potential to end things in this way with Hermione as well, but it did not due to sheer luck. It would be poor planning on Snape’s part if he had wanted to help SPHEW in its fight. His presence at the last big fight is not evidence either way; he could have been there to bolster the slytherins or help SPHEW.
In any event, if we look at Snape’s plotting in this light, there are now two people plotting against Hermione if H&C is not Snape. This does not make too much sense to me (from a who benefits standpoint) unless you consider Lucius as an option, but he loves Draco and would not plan something that might kill him.
Destroying the notes at the earliest opportunity is optimal, but the risk of being detected by Dumbledore OR Quirrell OR the Wards OR the Marauders’ Map OR <competent time-turned investigator if the plan doesn’t work> is significant if he tried to do so the night of the duel. His window of opportunity is not too large either, because Hermione would notice if they were destroyed too long before the duel. Perhaps Snape went ahead with his plan, confident in his ability as a Slytherin to maneuver the room full of shocked people into letting him search Hermione’s room?
((Postscript: After I’m done typing all of this out, it occurs to me that I may have latched too strongly onto this theory and am now defending it because it’s a pet theory and not because it’s the best theory. I don’t think that this is the case, but that’s how pet theories feel ‘from the inside’ anyway. Bleah.))
Edit: Disregard due to reasons below.
I think it was pretty clear that he was there to help SPHEW. That makes sense given his memory charming of everyone involved and it was (very) heavily implied that he was helping them in other battles.
I notice I am confused.…
(I reread the Dumbledore conversation speculating that Quirrell was helping SPHEW in previous fights, and that can only be Snape helping.)
He could have memory-charmed if he didn’t want to be known as working against SPHEW, but it is more likely that he was helping.
Now I do not have a good theory for who H&C is.
Snape is over Lily. He’s been coming to grips with losing his love for Lily ever since Harry gave Snape his (incorrect) explanation for Lily’s treatment of him. The moment he kissed Rianne is the moment he finally decided to stop living and grieving for Lily and start living for himself.
The question is what it means for him to live for himself. Dumbledore’s trust in Snape is based on his knowledge of Snape’s undying love for Lily. If Dumbledore were to find out that that love no longer exists, he would (gently, perhaps) kick Snape out of the Fellowship. He would know that there was no longer any reason to trust him. And if Snape has gotten over Lily, he’ll probably feel no real compulsion to help Harry in any particular way.
Quirrell, being a smarter Voldemort, knows what was driving Snape when he was working for Dumbledore, and he now knows that it’s driving Snape no longer. That’s why he had that little conversation with him in the woods; he knows that Snape is now a free agent who might once again be a blood purist loyal to Voldemort.
Voldemort would not likely welcome Snape back into his fold once Voldie reveals himself, but now that he knows Snape’s loyalties are up for grabs, he won’t hesitate to manipulate him and use him however he can until then.
How?
We’re told so during their conversation in the woods.
Quirrell may not know about his love for Lily, but I consider that highly unlikely, since Snape apparently still asked Voldemort not to kill her. Quirrellmort would certainly have put two and two together by now.
But that passage explicitly tells us that Quirrell knows that Snape is no longer acting under Dumbledore’s orders.
If it’s anything like canon in this regard, Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry. His loyalties aren’t up for grabs.
Snape didn’t make an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry. He makes one with Narcissa in the sixth book, promising to help Draco in his plot to kill Dumbledore. But Snape’s protection of Harry in canon is always grounded in his love for Lily.
Huh. I just reread that scene in Deathly Hallows after you mentioned it and you’re absolutely right.
I was sure I remembered an Unbreakable Vow in that scene. I wonder what else I could be misremembering… O.O Scary thought.
Are you perhaps thinking of the Unbreakable Vow Snape swore to protect Draco in Half-Blood Prince?
And Snape is the Half-Blood Prince.
I can’t see clearly why Snape is being presented as a likely hidden ally of SPHEW.
Without doubt, he involved himself in the group by providing information on where and when to find bullying, but this led to an escalation of hostilities rather than reducing bullying. This culminated in a massive confrontation during which he acted mysteriously, and by no means clearly in SPHEW’s interests (I suspect the myriad memory charms were to hide/obfuscate his prior manipulation of almost all of those present!).
The only way in which he openly acted on the matter was to punish and publicly humiliate Hermione.
Snape is not just a tragic lover of a murdered muggleborn—he is a very bitter and emotionally stunted person, and a major bully in his own right up until his actions were curbed through Harry’s influence. The idea that he would be on a personal crusade against bullying seems (to my reading) to go against almost every aspect of his character as presented so far in the fic.
If asked to speculate, I would suggest that:
Snape intentionally escalated the SPHEW/bully situation, and used the final brouhaha as an opportunity to trample Hermione when the bullies failed to do it for him.
He has observed the warming in relations between Hermione and Draco, and decided it had to be stopped—preferably by making each of them betray (or seem to) the trust of the other.
He decided that his own handling of the SPHEW situation had been too clumsy and ineffective—he needed to make Hermione herself a villain if he wanted her more permanently dealt with.
My main uncertainty is why Snape would pick Hermione in particular to target (I haven’t done a complete re-read for a few months, so I may be remembering events a bit ‘selectively’ - if I am being to mistrustful of Snape, I would love to see some references to points in the text where any of my interpretation is plausibly contradicted.
Edited: for grammar and clarity
It wasn’t Snape’s choice to humiliate Hermione publicly — that was Dumbledore’s decision, making use of Snape’s “evil potions master” persona. Note that none of the other professors speak up, except for Quirrell, who is a temporary hire and need not follow Dumbledore’s direction. Minerva doesn’t even show up, presumably so that she doesn’t have to sit and keep her mouth shut.
Dumbledore explains to Harry in chapter 77 that Hermione had to be seen to lose publicly in order to de-escalate the conflict with Slytherin. Dumbledore doesn’t actually know that Snape was involved in escalating the conflict.
I’m still not sure why Snape wanted to escalate conflict between the bullies and SPHEW, but regardless, we can’t look at his humiliation of Hermione as any evidence of his motives, because it’s not actually his move.
I suspect it’s because we wanted SPHEW to really go after bullies and wasn’t a competent enough plotter to foresee what would happen.
Snape’s been acting as Hermione’s protector, not as her adversary. (And without telling Dumbledore about it!)
From Chapter 72:
From Chapter 74: