(None of the following should be particularly surprising. I just want to provide additional personal confirmation that well-established cognitive techniques work as advertised.)
I have fairly strong social anxiety and get overstimulated by loud noises/bright lights. I’ve previously conditioned myself out of most ordinary and small-group anxiety through a)unavoidable practice with socializing and b)getting a black belt. However, until recently, I continued to have problems with a)a strong stress response to crowds and b)inability to hit on women (at least outside of OKCupid, where the invitation to do so is implicit).
Over the last month, I’ve successfully applied a couple of standard techniques to deal with this. First, about once or twice a week I would go to a crowded, noisy bar alone and just nurse a drink and people watch for an hour. Exposure therapy worked exactly as expected—my pulse no longer elevates, I don’t perspire excessively, etc. in the crowded/noisy environment.
However, I didn’t actually talk to anyone, and even though I can generally be about 95% confident that I will be at least the second-most muscular person in any bar I walk into, I have found that the “strong silent type” approach does not work at all. So it was time for step two. Before going to the bar, I made a commitment on Facebook to make a small extra charitable donation if I did not strike up a conversation with an attractive woman within 60 minutes of arrival (with the intention of increasing the donation amount each time in case of failure. Note that I did not choose a donation to a cause I disagree with, because that would have been adding a source of additional stress in an already stressful situation. The actual motivator here was more “not fail publicly in front of my FB friends,” since I’ll end up donating to AMF or GiveDirectly eventually regardless.)
And it turns out that pre-commitment works as intended, too. I made my first attempt about 20 minutes in. I did strike up a brief but extremely awkward conversation for a minute or two. I consider this a useful outcome, because it reinforces {failed awkwardly --> no serious consequences} on a subconscious level. I tried again another 20 minutes later (with arguably the most attractive woman in the bar at the time), had a pleasant conversation for 5 or 10 minutes, and got her name.
I don’t regard any of this as a particularly heroic accomplishment. I just want to reinforce that, as they say, useful technique is useful.
Suggestion that seemed to help me when I was stumped for conversation; ask yourself “what do I want to know about this person?”
some things I come up with:
Where are they from
What do they do (but I recently realised I would rather know their hopes and dreams than what they are doing now)
Hopes and dreams/goals/plans
pets
are they studying
do they also like X (thing that I like)
From a strictly PUA perspective; Logistics.
where does this person live
what are they doing tomorrow
are they suited to me (this can change over the conversation)
do I have an opportunity to take them home with me (this can change over the conversation)
are they old enough/too old (local legal statuses/personal preferences).
do I have a connection once I leave here; Number; facebook; email;
plans to meet them again.
Other things that help awkwardness:
Truthfully explaining your position—“I promised myself I would go to a bar and talk to strangers, but I don’t really know what I am doing, I thought you looked like a friendly person to talk to so I started with you. I am looking to make friends, can you help me?”. As long as its the truth people should be able to read that off you and will treat you better once you have accounted for the potential strange behaviour. (help people understand what is happening in your head)
Other things that help awkwardness: Truthfully explaining your position...
Have you actually experienced this, or is this an assumption? I would have expected that saying these sorts of things would come off as a red flag for “this person is awkward/desperate” --> avoid contact.
Assuming you are going to act, or feel awkwardly either way. You would be better off also explaining the situation than have the person be put-off by those behaviours without understanding why/what is going on.
As an added bonus, asking someone to help you, “can you help me meet new people/make friends” (ask a stranger to do a favour for you) will make them like you more. Internally its a signal that goes something like - (system1) I only do favours for people I like; I barely know this person; I must like this person. Kinda a cheaty-way to get people to like you. Where accepting to do a favour is a system 2 response (person asked a favour; its an easy one that I can help with).
This concept is well explained in the book “the charisma myth”. using a related concept. If you are having a meeting in a coffee shop and you are sitting in the sun, you are likely to be squinting a lot. Or the other party is likely to notice you squinting a lot. without (the other party) necessarily understanding why - a squinting face is similar to a suspicious or judgemental facial expression. If you want to be seen as “just squinting/judging right now” you are best to explain the fact that you are squinting because of the sun, not letting them assume you are inherently squinting/suspicious.
“Being an awkward person” is not a permanent characteristic, only one that pops up in new environments. By identifying it; you allow people to be charitable as to what your traits are usually, and you can warm up to them in your own time.
Yes, it makes a lot of sense. It’s more of a method to combat already existing awkwardness, than a preventative measure. There’s no need to bring it up if you’re feeling comfortable anyway.
oh yes definitely. I should have been more clear about those two points. That was implied with it having to be the truth, but I guess I didn’t see it clearly. Thanks for that! and glad I could help.
Before going to the bar, I made a commitment on Facebook to make a small extra charitable donation if I did not strike up a conversation with an attractive woman within 60 minutes of arrival (with the intention of increasing the donation amount each time in case of failure. Note that I did not choose a donation to a cause I disagree with, because that would have been adding a source of additional stress in an already stressful situation. The actual motivator here was more “not fail publicly in front of my FB friends,” since I’ll end up donating to AMF or GiveDirectly eventually regardless.)
(None of the following should be particularly surprising. I just want to provide additional personal confirmation that well-established cognitive techniques work as advertised.)
I have fairly strong social anxiety and get overstimulated by loud noises/bright lights. I’ve previously conditioned myself out of most ordinary and small-group anxiety through a)unavoidable practice with socializing and b)getting a black belt. However, until recently, I continued to have problems with a)a strong stress response to crowds and b)inability to hit on women (at least outside of OKCupid, where the invitation to do so is implicit).
Over the last month, I’ve successfully applied a couple of standard techniques to deal with this. First, about once or twice a week I would go to a crowded, noisy bar alone and just nurse a drink and people watch for an hour. Exposure therapy worked exactly as expected—my pulse no longer elevates, I don’t perspire excessively, etc. in the crowded/noisy environment.
However, I didn’t actually talk to anyone, and even though I can generally be about 95% confident that I will be at least the second-most muscular person in any bar I walk into, I have found that the “strong silent type” approach does not work at all. So it was time for step two. Before going to the bar, I made a commitment on Facebook to make a small extra charitable donation if I did not strike up a conversation with an attractive woman within 60 minutes of arrival (with the intention of increasing the donation amount each time in case of failure. Note that I did not choose a donation to a cause I disagree with, because that would have been adding a source of additional stress in an already stressful situation. The actual motivator here was more “not fail publicly in front of my FB friends,” since I’ll end up donating to AMF or GiveDirectly eventually regardless.)
And it turns out that pre-commitment works as intended, too. I made my first attempt about 20 minutes in. I did strike up a brief but extremely awkward conversation for a minute or two. I consider this a useful outcome, because it reinforces {failed awkwardly --> no serious consequences} on a subconscious level. I tried again another 20 minutes later (with arguably the most attractive woman in the bar at the time), had a pleasant conversation for 5 or 10 minutes, and got her name.
I don’t regard any of this as a particularly heroic accomplishment. I just want to reinforce that, as they say, useful technique is useful.
Suggestion that seemed to help me when I was stumped for conversation; ask yourself “what do I want to know about this person?” some things I come up with:
Where are they from
What do they do (but I recently realised I would rather know their hopes and dreams than what they are doing now)
Hopes and dreams/goals/plans
pets
are they studying
do they also like X (thing that I like)
From a strictly PUA perspective; Logistics.
where does this person live
what are they doing tomorrow
are they suited to me (this can change over the conversation)
do I have an opportunity to take them home with me (this can change over the conversation)
are they old enough/too old (local legal statuses/personal preferences).
do I have a connection once I leave here; Number; facebook; email;
plans to meet them again.
Other things that help awkwardness: Truthfully explaining your position—“I promised myself I would go to a bar and talk to strangers, but I don’t really know what I am doing, I thought you looked like a friendly person to talk to so I started with you. I am looking to make friends, can you help me?”. As long as its the truth people should be able to read that off you and will treat you better once you have accounted for the potential strange behaviour. (help people understand what is happening in your head)
PM for a further breakdown if you need.
Have you actually experienced this, or is this an assumption? I would have expected that saying these sorts of things would come off as a red flag for “this person is awkward/desperate” --> avoid contact.
As a two-option situation:
explain
don’t explain
Assuming you are going to act, or feel awkwardly either way. You would be better off also explaining the situation than have the person be put-off by those behaviours without understanding why/what is going on.
As an added bonus, asking someone to help you, “can you help me meet new people/make friends” (ask a stranger to do a favour for you) will make them like you more. Internally its a signal that goes something like - (system1) I only do favours for people I like; I barely know this person; I must like this person. Kinda a cheaty-way to get people to like you. Where accepting to do a favour is a system 2 response (person asked a favour; its an easy one that I can help with).
This concept is well explained in the book “the charisma myth”. using a related concept. If you are having a meeting in a coffee shop and you are sitting in the sun, you are likely to be squinting a lot. Or the other party is likely to notice you squinting a lot. without (the other party) necessarily understanding why - a squinting face is similar to a suspicious or judgemental facial expression. If you want to be seen as “just squinting/judging right now” you are best to explain the fact that you are squinting because of the sun, not letting them assume you are inherently squinting/suspicious.
“Being an awkward person” is not a permanent characteristic, only one that pops up in new environments. By identifying it; you allow people to be charitable as to what your traits are usually, and you can warm up to them in your own time.
Does this make sense?
Yes, it makes a lot of sense. It’s more of a method to combat already existing awkwardness, than a preventative measure. There’s no need to bring it up if you’re feeling comfortable anyway.
oh yes definitely. I should have been more clear about those two points. That was implied with it having to be the truth, but I guess I didn’t see it clearly. Thanks for that! and glad I could help.
Why not Beeminder?