Unlike in the learning and steering model, all of the shards are shaped primarily via reinforcement learning; only the rewards, learning algorithms, and a few stimulus reactions can be hardcoded. In the learning and steering model, the steering subsystem contains hardcoded social instincts and complex drives such as disgust or awe. In contrast, in the shard theory baby example, there are no in-built “listen to authority”-shards, the baby learns a “listen to authority”-shard as a consequence of their hardcoded reward circuitry and learning algorithm.
(“Learning & steering model” guy here.) I think this is confused. “Only the rewards, learning algorithms, and a few stimulus reactions can be hardcoded” is a claim that I more-or-less endorse.
Question: Should we think of disgust as “stimulus reaction” or “complex drive”? I would split up three things here:
“the disgust reaction” (a somewhat-involuntary set of muscle motions and associated “feelings”) (actually we should say “disgust reactions” — I heard there were two of them with different facial expressions. Source: here I think?)
“the concept of disgust” (an abstract concept in our world-models, subtly different for different people, and certainly different in different cultures; for example those two disgust reactions I mentioned are lumped into the same concept, at least for English-speakers)
“the set of situations / beliefs / expectations / etc. that evoke a disgust reaction” — for example, if I say “I’m gonna lick my armpit”, you might feel disgust.
I think the first bullet point is innate / hardwired, the second bullet-point is part of the learned world-model, and the third bullet point is learned within a lifetime and stored in the “Learning Subsystem” but I wouldn’t say it’s part of the world-model per se, kinda more like a trained “head” coming off the world-model. However, I think the outputs of this trained “disgust head” interact with a hardcoded system in the brainstem that also has direct access to tastes and smells, and thus it’s possible to feel disgust for direct sensory reasons that were not learned.
What about awe? Similar to what I said about disgust, probably.
What about “listen to authority”? Hard to say. I think there are probably some simple “innate reactions” that play a role in the human tendency to form status hierarchies, and maybe also dominance hierarchies, but I’m not sure what they are or how they work at the moment. Clearly an idea like “Don’t mess with Elodie or she’ll beat me up” could be learned by generic RL without any specific tailoring in the genome. So I can imagine a number of different possibilities and don’t have much opinion so far.
(“Learning & steering model” guy here.) I think this is confused. “Only the rewards, learning algorithms, and a few stimulus reactions can be hardcoded” is a claim that I more-or-less endorse.
Question: Should we think of disgust as “stimulus reaction” or “complex drive”? I would split up three things here:
“the disgust reaction” (a somewhat-involuntary set of muscle motions and associated “feelings”) (actually we should say “disgust reactions” — I heard there were two of them with different facial expressions. Source: here I think?)
“the concept of disgust” (an abstract concept in our world-models, subtly different for different people, and certainly different in different cultures; for example those two disgust reactions I mentioned are lumped into the same concept, at least for English-speakers)
“the set of situations / beliefs / expectations / etc. that evoke a disgust reaction” — for example, if I say “I’m gonna lick my armpit”, you might feel disgust.
I think the first bullet point is innate / hardwired, the second bullet-point is part of the learned world-model, and the third bullet point is learned within a lifetime and stored in the “Learning Subsystem” but I wouldn’t say it’s part of the world-model per se, kinda more like a trained “head” coming off the world-model. However, I think the outputs of this trained “disgust head” interact with a hardcoded system in the brainstem that also has direct access to tastes and smells, and thus it’s possible to feel disgust for direct sensory reasons that were not learned.
What about awe? Similar to what I said about disgust, probably.
What about “listen to authority”? Hard to say. I think there are probably some simple “innate reactions” that play a role in the human tendency to form status hierarchies, and maybe also dominance hierarchies, but I’m not sure what they are or how they work at the moment. Clearly an idea like “Don’t mess with Elodie or she’ll beat me up” could be learned by generic RL without any specific tailoring in the genome. So I can imagine a number of different possibilities and don’t have much opinion so far.
Thanks for the clarification. I’ve edited in a link to this comment.