I notice myself feeling somewhat frustrated that there aren’t currently names for the 4 stages that are succinct but meaningful (lies/bullshit/power-games doesn’t feel like it cleaves it in a way that parses for me). But this is perhaps indicative of the intrinsic difficulty in communicating about this class of problem (because it doesn’t want to be easily communicated about)
I think this isn’t well-enough-understood to have a set of standardized terms yet. The implied request is to try to model these things in the world yourself, and start trying to talk about them, so that *eventually* the discourse self-corrects into a crisp model that doesn’t imply absurdities like the “worlds” framework, and we can start naming things definitively. I don’t expect this to happen in public.
It might be useful to make such requests more explicit.
It might be useful to make explicit how much progress has been made. Most of the discussion has anchored on Baudrillard and the number 4, but it’s not clear that you wanted that. Is this even supposed to be a discrete qualitative model, or is it continuous and the stages are just for verbal convenience? (“The system wireheads itself” vs “the system wireheads employees” is the only thing that jumped out at me as object-level qualitatively distinct.)
This seems like a useful frame.
I notice myself feeling somewhat frustrated that there aren’t currently names for the 4 stages that are succinct but meaningful (lies/bullshit/power-games doesn’t feel like it cleaves it in a way that parses for me). But this is perhaps indicative of the intrinsic difficulty in communicating about this class of problem (because it doesn’t want to be easily communicated about)
I think this isn’t well-enough-understood to have a set of standardized terms yet. The implied request is to try to model these things in the world yourself, and start trying to talk about them, so that *eventually* the discourse self-corrects into a crisp model that doesn’t imply absurdities like the “worlds” framework, and we can start naming things definitively. I don’t expect this to happen in public.
It might be useful to make such requests more explicit.
It might be useful to make explicit how much progress has been made. Most of the discussion has anchored on Baudrillard and the number 4, but it’s not clear that you wanted that. Is this even supposed to be a discrete qualitative model, or is it continuous and the stages are just for verbal convenience? (“The system wireheads itself” vs “the system wireheads employees” is the only thing that jumped out at me as object-level qualitatively distinct.)
Image / Lies / Playing House / Calvinball