I hope this is worth saying:
I’ve been reading up a bit on philosophical pragmatism especially Peirce and I see a lot parallels with the thinking on LW, since it has a lot in common with positivism this is maybe not so surprising.
Though my interpretation of pragmatism seems to give a quite interesting critiquing the metaphor of “Map and territory”, they seem to be saying that the territory do exist, just that when we point to territory we are actually pointing to how an ideal observer (that are somewhat like us?) would perceive the territory not the actual territory because that can not be done, since we need some kind of framework. Quite probably I’m just falling for the old trees falling in the forest fallacy.
So am I thinking strait? And if I do, does have any consequences?
As a side comment, it’s interesting to note that “The map is not the territory” is the first law of General Semantics, while the second law recites “The map is the territory”, meaning that we cannot ever know the territory for what it really is: when we point to territory we are just basically pointing to another map.
Could you provide some source? Putting “first law of General Semantics” into google returns your comment and one book written in 2000 long after Korbyskies death.
Putting “second law of General Semantics” into google returns one paper about feminism written in 2010.
General Semantics is about getting rid of the is of identity and doesn’t contain many sentences like “The map is the territory”.
When it comes to “laws” about the relationship between maps and the territory Science and Sanity starts with:
A) A map may have a structure similar or dissimilar to the structure of the territory. (1)
B) Two similar structures have similar logical characteristics. Thus, if in a correct map, Dresden is given as between Paris and Warsaw, a similar relation is found in the actual territory. (2)
C) A map is not the territory. (3) (And Korbyski did write ‘is not’ in cursive in the original)
From there it goes till (40). General semantics isn’t about making paradoxical statements and drawing meaning from dialectics, It basically about getting rid of speaking about things having the identity of other things but rather speaking about structural relationships between things.
Could you provide some source? Putting “first law of General Semantics” into google returns your comment and one book written in 2000 long after Korbyskies death. Putting “second law of General Semantics” into google returns one paper about feminism written in 2010.
Uhm, that’s interesting. I was told such by a person I trusted many, many years ago. Since I’ve never been interested in GS I’ve never looked into that matter more closely. I’ll try to see if I can dig up the original source, but I don’t have much faith in that (but it might have been that “first” and “second” law were intended informally).
If I can’t find anything, I guess that that trusted source wasn’t that much reliable, after all.
Putting “second law of General Semantics” into google returns one paper about feminism written in 2010.
I hope this is worth saying: I’ve been reading up a bit on philosophical pragmatism especially Peirce and I see a lot parallels with the thinking on LW, since it has a lot in common with positivism this is maybe not so surprising.
Though my interpretation of pragmatism seems to give a quite interesting critiquing the metaphor of “Map and territory”, they seem to be saying that the territory do exist, just that when we point to territory we are actually pointing to how an ideal observer (that are somewhat like us?) would perceive the territory not the actual territory because that can not be done, since we need some kind of framework. Quite probably I’m just falling for the old trees falling in the forest fallacy. So am I thinking strait? And if I do, does have any consequences?
As a side comment, it’s interesting to note that “The map is not the territory” is the first law of General Semantics, while the second law recites “The map is the territory”, meaning that we cannot ever know the territory for what it really is: when we point to territory we are just basically pointing to another map.
Could you provide some source? Putting “first law of General Semantics” into google returns your comment and one book written in 2000 long after Korbyskies death. Putting “second law of General Semantics” into google returns one paper about feminism written in 2010.
General Semantics is about getting rid of the is of identity and doesn’t contain many sentences like “The map is the territory”.
When it comes to “laws” about the relationship between maps and the territory Science and Sanity starts with:
From there it goes till (40). General semantics isn’t about making paradoxical statements and drawing meaning from dialectics, It basically about getting rid of speaking about things having the identity of other things but rather speaking about structural relationships between things.
Uhm, that’s interesting. I was told such by a person I trusted many, many years ago. Since I’ve never been interested in GS I’ve never looked into that matter more closely. I’ll try to see if I can dig up the original source, but I don’t have much faith in that (but it might have been that “first” and “second” law were intended informally). If I can’t find anything, I guess that that trusted source wasn’t that much reliable, after all.
LOL to that.