Thanks, that’s interesting. 440 euro is not a lot, though—could you live in Helsinki on that (in 2007)? Is this supposed to replace for instance unemployment benefits (which I’m sure are much higher)? It so, this system would make some people who aren’t that well off worse off.
One thing that is seldom noted is that the Scandinavian “general welfare states” are in effect half-way to the UBI. In Sweden, and I would guess the other Scandinavian countries as well, everyone gets a significant pension no-matter what, child benefits are not means-tested, etc. Also virtually everyone uses public schools, public health-care, public universities and public child-care (all of which are either heavily subsidized or free). So it’s not a question of either you have an Anglo-saxon system where benefits mostly go to the poor or a UBI system, but there are other options.
440 euros is almost the same amount as direct student benefits were in 2007, though that’s not taking into account the fact that most students also have access to subsidized housing which helps substantially. On the other hand, the proposed UBI model would have maintained as separate systems the current Finnish system of “housing benefits” (which pays a part of your rent if you’re low-income, exact amount depending on the city so as to take into account varying price levels around the country) as well as “income support”, which is supposed to be a last-resort aid that pays for your expenses if you can show that you have reasonable needs that you just can’t meet in any other way. So we might be able to say that in total, the effective total support paid to someone on basic income would have been roughly comparable to that paid to a student in 2007.
Some students manage to live on that whereas some need to take part-time jobs to supplement it, which seems to be roughly the right level to aim for—doable if you’re really frugal about your expenses, but low enough that it will still encourage you to find work regardless. Might need to increase child benefits a bit in order to ensure that it’s doable even if you’re having a family, though.
The Greens’ proposed UBI would have replaced “all welfare’s minimum benefits”, so other benefits that currently pay out about the same amount. That would include student benefits and the very lowest level of unemployment benefit (which you AFAIK get if your former job paid you hardly anything, basically), but it wouldn’t replace e.g. higher levels of unemployment benefits.
Housing benefits are an alternative to the idea discussed here; i.e. subsidizing particular low-cost, low-standard flats. However, the problem with housing benefits is that you tend to get more of them if you have higher rent, and thus you in effect reward people with more expensive tastes, which leads to a general increase of housing consumption. My proposal is intended to have the exact opposite consequence.
I’m not that adverse to the UBI but there is something counter-intuitive about the idea that rich people first pay taxes and then get benefits back. This forces you to either lower the level of basic income (or other government expenditure) or raise taxes. My suggestion is intended to take care of this without having to resort to means-testing.
Thanks, that’s interesting. 440 euro is not a lot, though—could you live in Helsinki on that (in 2007)? Is this supposed to replace for instance unemployment benefits (which I’m sure are much higher)? It so, this system would make some people who aren’t that well off worse off.
One thing that is seldom noted is that the Scandinavian “general welfare states” are in effect half-way to the UBI. In Sweden, and I would guess the other Scandinavian countries as well, everyone gets a significant pension no-matter what, child benefits are not means-tested, etc. Also virtually everyone uses public schools, public health-care, public universities and public child-care (all of which are either heavily subsidized or free). So it’s not a question of either you have an Anglo-saxon system where benefits mostly go to the poor or a UBI system, but there are other options.
440 euros is almost the same amount as direct student benefits were in 2007, though that’s not taking into account the fact that most students also have access to subsidized housing which helps substantially. On the other hand, the proposed UBI model would have maintained as separate systems the current Finnish system of “housing benefits” (which pays a part of your rent if you’re low-income, exact amount depending on the city so as to take into account varying price levels around the country) as well as “income support”, which is supposed to be a last-resort aid that pays for your expenses if you can show that you have reasonable needs that you just can’t meet in any other way. So we might be able to say that in total, the effective total support paid to someone on basic income would have been roughly comparable to that paid to a student in 2007.
Some students manage to live on that whereas some need to take part-time jobs to supplement it, which seems to be roughly the right level to aim for—doable if you’re really frugal about your expenses, but low enough that it will still encourage you to find work regardless. Might need to increase child benefits a bit in order to ensure that it’s doable even if you’re having a family, though.
The Greens’ proposed UBI would have replaced “all welfare’s minimum benefits”, so other benefits that currently pay out about the same amount. That would include student benefits and the very lowest level of unemployment benefit (which you AFAIK get if your former job paid you hardly anything, basically), but it wouldn’t replace e.g. higher levels of unemployment benefits.
Thanks, that’s interesting and comprehensive.
Housing benefits are an alternative to the idea discussed here; i.e. subsidizing particular low-cost, low-standard flats. However, the problem with housing benefits is that you tend to get more of them if you have higher rent, and thus you in effect reward people with more expensive tastes, which leads to a general increase of housing consumption. My proposal is intended to have the exact opposite consequence.
I’m not that adverse to the UBI but there is something counter-intuitive about the idea that rich people first pay taxes and then get benefits back. This forces you to either lower the level of basic income (or other government expenditure) or raise taxes. My suggestion is intended to take care of this without having to resort to means-testing.