so can you tell, how these superpositions are going to explain qualia any better? Seems like you demand the explanation be black box without internal structure
I’m not trying to explain why qualia occur, just seeking a sensible physical description of them. Given the requirement that qualia should be actually experienced in some sense, a “black box” system which clearly matches these mysterious experiences is better than a complicated classical configuration plus a lengthy description of how this configuration is felt from the inside.
The “naive physicalists” don’t maintain anything like that. Evolution isn’t sheer luck.
Indeed it’s not: it’s an optimization process! But why would evolution care about qualia? In fact, many physicalist philosophers think qualia exist as epiphenomena, and an epiphenomenon cannot be naturally selected for.
I’m not trying to explain why qualia occur, just seeking a sensible physical description of them.
I use description and explanation as synonyms most of the time. Black box description is not much of a description, it’s rather lack of one. What information is contained in “qualia work like a black box”, or in a little more fancy language, “qualia work due to still unknown physical mechanism”? These are not description of qualia; the only non-vacuous interpretation of such sentences is “the contemporary physics is not going to explain qualia”, which may be true, but still is a statement about our current knowledge, not about qualia.
But why would evolution care about qualia?
Well, you are probably right in that, even if we are getting dangerously close to the philosophical zombies’ realm.
What information is contained in “qualia work like a black box”, or in a little more fancy language, “qualia work due to still unknown physical mechanism”?
Very little, but this is not a real description of qualia, just a sketch proposal which demonstrates a promising avenue of research. A complete description would state what physical system in the brain is responsible for maintaining complex, “black box” quantum states, and perhaps how that physical system interacts with known neural correlates of subjective experiences. Unfortunately, we’re nowhere near that level yet.
even if we are getting dangerously close to the philosophical zombies’ realm.
Dangerously close? Do you fear that P-zombies will infect you with an epiphenomenal virus and cause you to lose your subjective experience?
[J]ust a sketch proposal which demonstrates a promising avenue of research. A complete description would state what physical system in the brain is responsible for maintaining complex, “black box” quantum states [...]
What makes this avenue different from investigation of neuron configurations? New physical laws were never discovered after rejecting the old ones, saying that they couldn’t possibly work. All discoveries of new physics happened after conducting research using the old paradigm and realising anomalies. I mean, if there is something strangely quantum going on in the brains, we will not miss it even if we use the conventional approach.
Or said differently, I still have no idea what light quantumness can bring into the question.
Do you fear that P-zombies will infect you with an epiphenomenal virus and cause you to lose your subjective experience?
I fear talking about things that aren’t connected to observable facts. I fear that I might say a lot of grammatically correct sentences with no actual meaning.
What makes this avenue different from investigation of neuron configurations?
Not much. It’s still neuroscience, but it takes reports of subjective experience a bit more seriously, and tries to explain them by using existing physics, rather than treating them as meaningless or as magical and unexplainable.
I fear talking about thing that aren’t connected to observable facts. I fear that I might say a lot of grammatically correct sentences with no actual meaning.
Look, it’s not that complicated. I’m not the only person who talks about the Cartesian theater and claims that we can somehow feel brain algorithms from the inside. If subjective experience is not an observable fact to you, then your psychology is radically different from that of many other people.
I should have written objective observable facts or something like that. I can observe that I am not a P-zombie, however the beauty of the whole P-zombie business is that such observation is, sort of, insufficient. I would need to observe whether you are a P-zombie, and that I can’t.
It is perhaps more economical and Occam-razorish for me to expect that other people are no P-zombies either, but even if they were zombies, I would have no way to realise that, and this renders the zombie question quite uninteresting.
I’m not trying to explain why qualia occur, just seeking a sensible physical description of them. Given the requirement that qualia should be actually experienced in some sense, a “black box” system which clearly matches these mysterious experiences is better than a complicated classical configuration plus a lengthy description of how this configuration is felt from the inside.
Indeed it’s not: it’s an optimization process! But why would evolution care about qualia? In fact, many physicalist philosophers think qualia exist as epiphenomena, and an epiphenomenon cannot be naturally selected for.
I use description and explanation as synonyms most of the time. Black box description is not much of a description, it’s rather lack of one. What information is contained in “qualia work like a black box”, or in a little more fancy language, “qualia work due to still unknown physical mechanism”? These are not description of qualia; the only non-vacuous interpretation of such sentences is “the contemporary physics is not going to explain qualia”, which may be true, but still is a statement about our current knowledge, not about qualia.
Well, you are probably right in that, even if we are getting dangerously close to the philosophical zombies’ realm.
Very little, but this is not a real description of qualia, just a sketch proposal which demonstrates a promising avenue of research. A complete description would state what physical system in the brain is responsible for maintaining complex, “black box” quantum states, and perhaps how that physical system interacts with known neural correlates of subjective experiences. Unfortunately, we’re nowhere near that level yet.
Dangerously close? Do you fear that P-zombies will infect you with an epiphenomenal virus and cause you to lose your subjective experience?
What makes this avenue different from investigation of neuron configurations? New physical laws were never discovered after rejecting the old ones, saying that they couldn’t possibly work. All discoveries of new physics happened after conducting research using the old paradigm and realising anomalies. I mean, if there is something strangely quantum going on in the brains, we will not miss it even if we use the conventional approach.
Or said differently, I still have no idea what light quantumness can bring into the question.
I fear talking about things that aren’t connected to observable facts. I fear that I might say a lot of grammatically correct sentences with no actual meaning.
Not much. It’s still neuroscience, but it takes reports of subjective experience a bit more seriously, and tries to explain them by using existing physics, rather than treating them as meaningless or as magical and unexplainable.
Look, it’s not that complicated. I’m not the only person who talks about the Cartesian theater and claims that we can somehow feel brain algorithms from the inside. If subjective experience is not an observable fact to you, then your psychology is radically different from that of many other people.
I should have written objective observable facts or something like that. I can observe that I am not a P-zombie, however the beauty of the whole P-zombie business is that such observation is, sort of, insufficient. I would need to observe whether you are a P-zombie, and that I can’t.
It is perhaps more economical and Occam-razorish for me to expect that other people are no P-zombies either, but even if they were zombies, I would have no way to realise that, and this renders the zombie question quite uninteresting.