since we simply deal with another case of “dust speck vs torture”
There is no contradiction to rejecting total utilitarianism and choosing torture. Choosing torture and becoming a total utilitarian both involve bullet biting in ways that feel similar. But choosing torture is the natural consequences of almost all preferences, once you make them consistent and accept to make the choice. Becoming total ut is not (for instance, average utilitarians would also choose torture, but would obviously feel no compulsion to change their population ethics).
Though I think can descriptively say that, structurally, refusing total utilitarianism because of the repugnant conclusion is equal to refusing total utilitarianism in another world where we are bad at imagining “17” and where we find it absurd that 17 people being tortured could be considered as worse than 5 peope being tortured.
You can also descriptively say that, structurally, refusing total utilitarianism because of the repugnant conclusion is equal to refusing deontology because we’ve realise that two deontological absolutes can contradict each other. Or, more simply, refusing X because of A is structurally the same as refusing X’ because of A’.
Just because one can reject total utilitarianism (or anything) for erroneous reasons, does not mean that every reason for rejecting total utilitarianism must be an error.
There is no contradiction to rejecting total utilitarianism and choosing torture.
For one thing, I compared choosing torture with the repugnant conclusion, not with total utilitarianism. For another thing, I didn’t suspect there to be any contradiction. However, agents with intransitive dispositions are exploitable.
You can also descriptively say that, structurally, refusing total utilitarianism because of the repugnant conclusion is equal to refusing deontology because we’ve realise that two deontological absolutes can contradict each other. Or, more simply, refusing X because of A is structurally the same as refusing X’ because of A’.
My fault, I should have been more precise. I wanted to say that the two repugnant conclusions (one based on dust specks the other one based on “17”) are similiar because quite some people would, upon reflection, refuse any kind of scope neglect that renders one intransitive.
Just because one can reject total utilitarianism (or anything) for erroneous reasons, does not mean that every reason for rejecting total utilitarianism must be an error.
I agree. Again, I didn’t claim the contrary to be true. I didn’t argue against the rejection of total utilitarianism. However, I argued against the repugnant conclusion, since it simply repeats that evolution brought about limbic systems that make human brains choose in intransitive ways. For the case that we in the dust speck example considered this to be a bias, the same would apply in the repugnant conclusion.
There is no contradiction to rejecting total utilitarianism and choosing torture.
However, agents with intransitive dispositions are exploitable.
Transitive agents (eg average utilitarians) can reject the repugnant conclusion and choose torture. These things are not the same—many consistent, unexploitable agents reach different conclusions on them. Rejection of the repugnant conclusion does not come from scope neglect.
There is no contradiction to rejecting total utilitarianism and choosing torture. Choosing torture and becoming a total utilitarian both involve bullet biting in ways that feel similar. But choosing torture is the natural consequences of almost all preferences, once you make them consistent and accept to make the choice. Becoming total ut is not (for instance, average utilitarians would also choose torture, but would obviously feel no compulsion to change their population ethics).
You can also descriptively say that, structurally, refusing total utilitarianism because of the repugnant conclusion is equal to refusing deontology because we’ve realise that two deontological absolutes can contradict each other. Or, more simply, refusing X because of A is structurally the same as refusing X’ because of A’.
Just because one can reject total utilitarianism (or anything) for erroneous reasons, does not mean that every reason for rejecting total utilitarianism must be an error.
For one thing, I compared choosing torture with the repugnant conclusion, not with total utilitarianism. For another thing, I didn’t suspect there to be any contradiction. However, agents with intransitive dispositions are exploitable.
My fault, I should have been more precise. I wanted to say that the two repugnant conclusions (one based on dust specks the other one based on “17”) are similiar because quite some people would, upon reflection, refuse any kind of scope neglect that renders one intransitive.
I agree. Again, I didn’t claim the contrary to be true. I didn’t argue against the rejection of total utilitarianism. However, I argued against the repugnant conclusion, since it simply repeats that evolution brought about limbic systems that make human brains choose in intransitive ways. For the case that we in the dust speck example considered this to be a bias, the same would apply in the repugnant conclusion.
Transitive agents (eg average utilitarians) can reject the repugnant conclusion and choose torture. These things are not the same—many consistent, unexploitable agents reach different conclusions on them. Rejection of the repugnant conclusion does not come from scope neglect.