When we discuss whether he’s a crackpot we should also discuss whether all those people in power who initially said masks don’t work listening to think tanks instead of the most qualified experts should be considered crackpots. I think the case for Fauci being a crackpot is a lot better then for Kirsch.
From You:
Don’t extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? They seem to think that they themselves having seen some evidence is enough, so there’s little need to present it to their audience.
They seem to be advocating for the type of science and evidentiary methods from 2019 and earlier. It seems to me, the extraordinary claims are originating starting around February 2020 from some folks who have a lot of friends in mass media. Masks absolutely do not work, and you will be banned from public discourse if you disagree. This was the ordinary claim made with ordinary evidence, and we all agreed with it and abided by it because we had to.
A few weeks later, the ordinary claim made with ordinary evidence was masks are absolutely required. Some time later, two masks are better than one. I still remain unconvinced.
If I have to choose between the enforced beliefs-from-above mass media controllers and these three guys, with their… “extraordinary claims” without “extraordinary evidence,” I’m going with these three guys. Would prefer some sane discussion, though, since this is a somewhat serious disease causing somewhat serious problems for our global society.
Related, although I have sympathy with Kirsch’s position and views, when I read his “paper” or whatever it is, it reads like a manic schizophrenic. And as another commenter pointed out, I think he is too quick to include some anecdata or shoddy studies into his mountain of evidence, which is a huge “conspiracy theorist” tell. I’m not sure I want Kirsch on my side, save for the fact that he has collected all this stuff together, while no-one else did. I suppose the flawed hero is better than no hero at all.
Without relying on mass media, i’ve seen far too many simulations and demonstrations (various camera and imaging types) and far too many detailed articles specifying particle size, mechanisms of viral distribution, viral load and the like to convince me that there is sufficient efficacy to warrant their use.
Yes, this includes discussions with people I know that work or who have worked in front-line medical positions. Yes, how the wearer uses / fits a mask, touches / adjusts it, disposes / reuses, which type of masks and how much other protocols are followed will all influence the degree of mask effectiveness.
Yes, there are no large double-blind, peer-reviewed studies to support mask use (non that I could find anyway). I’m not a “chicken little”. I do believe there has been far too much conflation by some of prudence to mean cowardice, panic or being overwrought.
Re: the video … I found far too many instances of where the other two were putting words into Malone’s mouth, or were quick to over-interpret something he said.
I really would love for someone who understands the deep bioscience to take a very hard look at their ppl virology claims. At face value, the assertions would be very concerning, and while I would prefer for them to be wrong, I would rather see analysis as to whether they are or not. Pseudoscience is based on a whole lot of very very credible information and takes a sudden turn that is virtually impossible for non-specialists to unravel.
From another comment:
From You:
They seem to be advocating for the type of science and evidentiary methods from 2019 and earlier. It seems to me, the extraordinary claims are originating starting around February 2020 from some folks who have a lot of friends in mass media. Masks absolutely do not work, and you will be banned from public discourse if you disagree. This was the ordinary claim made with ordinary evidence, and we all agreed with it and abided by it because we had to.
A few weeks later, the ordinary claim made with ordinary evidence was masks are absolutely required. Some time later, two masks are better than one. I still remain unconvinced.
If I have to choose between the enforced beliefs-from-above mass media controllers and these three guys, with their… “extraordinary claims” without “extraordinary evidence,” I’m going with these three guys. Would prefer some sane discussion, though, since this is a somewhat serious disease causing somewhat serious problems for our global society.
Related, although I have sympathy with Kirsch’s position and views, when I read his “paper” or whatever it is, it reads like a manic schizophrenic. And as another commenter pointed out, I think he is too quick to include some anecdata or shoddy studies into his mountain of evidence, which is a huge “conspiracy theorist” tell. I’m not sure I want Kirsch on my side, save for the fact that he has collected all this stuff together, while no-one else did. I suppose the flawed hero is better than no hero at all.
Without relying on mass media, i’ve seen far too many simulations and demonstrations (various camera and imaging types) and far too many detailed articles specifying particle size, mechanisms of viral distribution, viral load and the like to convince me that there is sufficient efficacy to warrant their use.
Yes, this includes discussions with people I know that work or who have worked in front-line medical positions. Yes, how the wearer uses / fits a mask, touches / adjusts it, disposes / reuses, which type of masks and how much other protocols are followed will all influence the degree of mask effectiveness.
Yes, there are no large double-blind, peer-reviewed studies to support mask use (non that I could find anyway). I’m not a “chicken little”. I do believe there has been far too much conflation by some of prudence to mean cowardice, panic or being overwrought.
Re: the video … I found far too many instances of where the other two were putting words into Malone’s mouth, or were quick to over-interpret something he said.
I really would love for someone who understands the deep bioscience to take a very hard look at their ppl virology claims. At face value, the assertions would be very concerning, and while I would prefer for them to be wrong, I would rather see analysis as to whether they are or not. Pseudoscience is based on a whole lot of very very credible information and takes a sudden turn that is virtually impossible for non-specialists to unravel.