I think “discussions” is too broad a category for the normative statements you’re making. There may be some situations where your preferences/recommendations/beliefs-about-how-it-should-be are reasonable, but I think not very many.
A whole lot of discussions are started and continued by mutual agreement—the “natural state” is that a discussion is not happening, and one cannot force participation on another, so it doesn’t require justification to stop, only mutual agreement to start or continue.
In many contexts, Bob doesn’t owe Joe an audience, nor an explanation of how the points are lame. It’s a kindness to even say they’re lame, rather than just downvoting and walking away. In other contexts (generally, high-trust situations where Bob, Joe, and others have previously had numerous worthwhile discussions on related topics), that would be a surprising violation of expectations, which may or may not impact future discussions involving Bob.
In your linked article, you say ” A debate is a discussion about a disagreement. ” which is true, but rarely is that ALL that the debate is about. It’s also about enjoyment or expected impact of the resolution. And about enjoyment or validation of dominating a correspondent. And about a whole lot of other reasons that someone is having a discussion, rather than writing an academic paper (note also that many papers are not solely about their named topic).
So are you on board with something like differentiating and labelling a particular type of discussion and using procedures along these lines for that type of discussion?
My assumed context, which I grant I underspecified, was intellectual discussion or discussion of ideas (though no doubt there is room to specify further). Stuff like LW comments are on a forum where substantive discussion and trying to seek the truth is, to some extent, the expected norm. I didn’t intend this to apply to e.g. all small talk (though tbh I think people would benefit from applying norms like this much more widely, ).
So are you on board with something like differentiating and labelling a particular type of discussion and using procedures along these lines for that type of discussion?
I’m fine if you and someone else want to set ground rules and explicit expectations for some or all of your discussions. I don’t expect to participate in such very often, but I’ll gladly try it (if the rules are short and seem feasible; and I always reserve the right to exit when I no longer find value).
intellectual discussion or discussion of ideas (though no doubt there is room to specify further)
I think there’s need to specify further. LW is a good example—it’s more focused on truth-seeking than most places, but that doesn’t mean that other considerations are zero. And it doesn’t create an obligation to engage on dimensions that we don’t find interesting or valuable.
I’m not sure what you’re asking in this. Worldwide availability of a wide range of discussion types is currently available, but that’s still only a tiny fraction of imaginable discussion-type space.
I think there are plenty of mechanisms for individuals to choose whether they want to discuss something, and how and with whom, so it only takes a few to show the value of a given type, and if it turns out to be important or consequential, great!
I think “discussions” is too broad a category for the normative statements you’re making. There may be some situations where your preferences/recommendations/beliefs-about-how-it-should-be are reasonable, but I think not very many.
A whole lot of discussions are started and continued by mutual agreement—the “natural state” is that a discussion is not happening, and one cannot force participation on another, so it doesn’t require justification to stop, only mutual agreement to start or continue.
In many contexts, Bob doesn’t owe Joe an audience, nor an explanation of how the points are lame. It’s a kindness to even say they’re lame, rather than just downvoting and walking away. In other contexts (generally, high-trust situations where Bob, Joe, and others have previously had numerous worthwhile discussions on related topics), that would be a surprising violation of expectations, which may or may not impact future discussions involving Bob.
In your linked article, you say ” A debate is a discussion about a disagreement. ” which is true, but rarely is that ALL that the debate is about. It’s also about enjoyment or expected impact of the resolution. And about enjoyment or validation of dominating a correspondent. And about a whole lot of other reasons that someone is having a discussion, rather than writing an academic paper (note also that many papers are not solely about their named topic).
So are you on board with something like differentiating and labelling a particular type of discussion and using procedures along these lines for that type of discussion?
My assumed context, which I grant I underspecified, was intellectual discussion or discussion of ideas (though no doubt there is room to specify further). Stuff like LW comments are on a forum where substantive discussion and trying to seek the truth is, to some extent, the expected norm. I didn’t intend this to apply to e.g. all small talk (though tbh I think people would benefit from applying norms like this much more widely, ).
I’m fine if you and someone else want to set ground rules and explicit expectations for some or all of your discussions. I don’t expect to participate in such very often, but I’ll gladly try it (if the rules are short and seem feasible; and I always reserve the right to exit when I no longer find value).
I think there’s need to specify further. LW is a good example—it’s more focused on truth-seeking than most places, but that doesn’t mean that other considerations are zero. And it doesn’t create an obligation to engage on dimensions that we don’t find interesting or valuable.
Suppose hypothetically that the worldwide availability of this type of discussion was zero. Do you think that would be important or consequential?
I’m not sure what you’re asking in this. Worldwide availability of a wide range of discussion types is currently available, but that’s still only a tiny fraction of imaginable discussion-type space.
I think there are plenty of mechanisms for individuals to choose whether they want to discuss something, and how and with whom, so it only takes a few to show the value of a given type, and if it turns out to be important or consequential, great!
Note—I’m mostly done with this topic for now.