“Most of us think X is bad” is perhaps true for the person-copying scheme
I’m not saying that most people think this scheme is bad, I’m saying that most people don’t have the definition of harm that you do. Your idea that all harm must be knowing is not one commonly shared.
And the example has nothing to do with paternity. Most people would think that a world where people are cheated on but it is not discovered is one where the other partner is being harmed, simply because cheating on someone harms them and harm does not have to be knowing in order to be harm. Or, as I summarized, most people don’t think blissful ignorance is a good thing.
Nothing I have said in this conversation presupposed ignorance, blissful or otherwise.
I give up, feel free to disagree with what you imagine I said.
Check out Argumentum ad Populum. With all the references to “most people”, you seem to be committing that fallacy so often that I am unable to identify anything else in what you say.
The argument you made was that copy-and-destroy is not bad because a world where that is done is not worse than our own. In turn, your belief that it is not worse than our own is, as far as I can tell, based on the belief that you can compare that world to our own by comparing whether it is good for the people who remain alive, and ignoring whether it is good for the people who are killed. This implies that the fact that the person is killed doesn’t count towards making the world worse because being dead, he can’t know that he has been harmed, and because the other people don’t feel the loss they would feel that goes with a normal death. This amounts to blissful ignorance (although I suppose the dead person can be more accurately described as having ‘uncaring ignorance’, since dead people aren’t very blissful).
Check out Argumentum ad Populum. With all the references to “most people”, you seem to be committing that fallacy so often that I am unable to identify anything else in what you say.
Pointing out that your definition of something, like harm, is shared by few people is not argumentum ad populum, it’s pointing out that you are trying to sound like you’re talking about something people care about but you’re really not.
Well, I suppose it’s an improvement that you’ve identified what you’re arguing against.
Unfortunately the statements you disagree with don’t much resemble what I said. Specifically:
The argument you made was that copy-and-destroy is not bad because a world where
that is done is not worse than our own.
I did not compare one world to another.
Pointing out that your definition of something, like harm, is shared by few people is not
argumentum ad populum, it’s pointing out that you are trying to sound like you’re talking about
something people care about but you’re really not.
I did not define “harm”.
The disconnect between what I said and what you heard is big enough that saying more doesn’t seem likely to make things better.
The intent to make a website for the purpose of fostering rational conversation is good, and this one is the best I know, but it’s still so cringe-inducing that I ignore it for months at a time. This dialogue was typical. There has to be a better way but I don’t know what it is.
you should be able to describe the important way in which this hypothetical world where copy-and-destroy is useful is different from our own.
(I suppose you could quibble that you didn’t say it was not worse, but “not different” is a subset of “not worse”; you certainly did compare one world to another.)
I’m not saying that most people think this scheme is bad, I’m saying that most people don’t have the definition of harm that you do. Your idea that all harm must be knowing is not one commonly shared.
And the example has nothing to do with paternity. Most people would think that a world where people are cheated on but it is not discovered is one where the other partner is being harmed, simply because cheating on someone harms them and harm does not have to be knowing in order to be harm. Or, as I summarized, most people don’t think blissful ignorance is a good thing.
Nothing I have said in this conversation presupposed ignorance, blissful or otherwise.
I give up, feel free to disagree with what you imagine I said.
Check out Argumentum ad Populum. With all the references to “most people”, you seem to be committing that fallacy so often that I am unable to identify anything else in what you say.
The argument you made was that copy-and-destroy is not bad because a world where that is done is not worse than our own. In turn, your belief that it is not worse than our own is, as far as I can tell, based on the belief that you can compare that world to our own by comparing whether it is good for the people who remain alive, and ignoring whether it is good for the people who are killed. This implies that the fact that the person is killed doesn’t count towards making the world worse because being dead, he can’t know that he has been harmed, and because the other people don’t feel the loss they would feel that goes with a normal death. This amounts to blissful ignorance (although I suppose the dead person can be more accurately described as having ‘uncaring ignorance’, since dead people aren’t very blissful).
Pointing out that your definition of something, like harm, is shared by few people is not argumentum ad populum, it’s pointing out that you are trying to sound like you’re talking about something people care about but you’re really not.
Well, I suppose it’s an improvement that you’ve identified what you’re arguing against.
Unfortunately the statements you disagree with don’t much resemble what I said. Specifically:
I did not compare one world to another.
I did not define “harm”.
The disconnect between what I said and what you heard is big enough that saying more doesn’t seem likely to make things better.
The intent to make a website for the purpose of fostering rational conversation is good, and this one is the best I know, but it’s still so cringe-inducing that I ignore it for months at a time. This dialogue was typical. There has to be a better way but I don’t know what it is.
Um.
(I suppose you could quibble that you didn’t say it was not worse, but “not different” is a subset of “not worse”; you certainly did compare one world to another.)