I like these things, and I’ve added myself, but… there’ve been similar ones in the past, they don’t stay up to date. I feel like without some way for users to know, six months from now, that the information they’re looking at is still accurate, any given iteration is never going to be very useful for long.
An idea that’s floating around in my head, I think I’ve mentioned it before, is that a service like this could require everyone to occasionally confirm that they’re still in the same place. Send out an email once a month, they can click a link or reply to remain on the map, or ignore it to be removed.
I would expect that people move so rarely that the information would remain mostly up to date for years or even decades. Am I wrong?
I can also add a comment somewhere telling people to notify me if they tried to reach someone and failed. In that case I would try to contact the person to see what’s up and, failing that, remove the marker myself.
I’ve added a marker but wonder whether this has long-term possibilities. It seems not many people have added markers yet (although this may relate to the readership of open threads).
Regarding physical movement, it seems to me that lots of LWers are relatively mobile, even measured on scale of years. examples: high school students who travel to university or elsewhere for work reasons; university students who finish & get employment elsewhere; postgraduate students, contract researchers, academics. Also seems like there are plenty of people willing to consider alternative locations based on future opportunities.
My concerns are not just related to physical movement but also virtual movement—think of the number of members who were active here even 2-3 years ago but are no longer involved. Or just how short-lasting many free email addresses are. Offering to actively manage the map is thoughtful but what if you decide to move on from LW? Particularly as you are a relatively recent joiner, how much confidence should we have that you will be around to manage the location map in future?
All that said, I might PM a member from looking at the map if I happen to be visiting their location … assuming their posting history suggests it might be worthwhile.
Personally, I’d be happy to meet someone who has read LW even if they aren’t around the community anymore, so I don’t get what the concern is. The map may have “LessWrong” in the title, but it’s really about meeting interesting people.
Particularly as you are a relatively recent joiner, how much confidence should we have that you will be around to manage the location map in future?
I’m actually not new—this is just a new account. I don’t see myself leaving LessWrong anytime soon. Regardless, if I disappear I don’t see why someone else can’t take over. I just changed the security settings to allow for anyone to export the data. Gram_Stone suggested circulating the map around survey time. I think that would be a good, predictable time to update people on the state of the map, including notifying them of a possible change of hands.
Even if people don’t move much, they might leave the community, or remain in the community but stop checking LW so that they look like they’ve left.
But it’s not just about whether or not it does stay accurate, it’s also about whether people perceive it to be accurate. If someone expects it to be out of date, they might not even bother trying. I (and I think a bunch of other people) find it somewhat aversive to contact a complete stranger with a request, even if that person has said it’s totally okay to contact them with those requests, and it gets worse if they said it six months ago and might have retracted the offer.
(Related, if I did contact someone and got no reply, I would then find it somewhat aversive to contact you and let you know about it. I might also forget to do that, it’s difficult to trigger off of not getting a reply to an email. And then I’d have to wonder if you’re still active...)
Incidentally, I looked for a previous iteration so we could see empirically whether or not it’s still accurate, but I can’t find it. LW uses the word “map” a lot. I did find a couchsurfing group that no longer seems to exist.
Regardless of how true what you’re saying is, it all sounds like very weak reasons not to try. Some people find aversive to contact an stranger? Whatever, some don’t. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of people who won’t hesitate in seizing an opportunity to meet a fellow LWer, especially if they live in less developed places where meeting interesting people is really hard.
A monthly mail confirmation sounds like more trouble than it’s worth, and people might be put off by the spammy nature of it. I think fixing the map as people report problems is a better approach.
Honestly, your complaints sound like those of someone who already can meet interesting people and has little need for the map in the first place. I’m sure those who really need it won’t have any problems with it. The map doesn’t have to be perfect to be useful.
I’m interested in seeing how previous attempts went however. If you recall any others don’t hesitate to tell me.
When you say more trouble than it’s worth, do you mean for you or for people on the map? I wasn’t saying “you should do this”, I was going for “it might be neat if someone wrote software to do this”. I agree that doing it manually would be a pain in the ass, and would be somewhat spammy because people didn’t opt in for that when they added themselves.
I mean in general. Clicking a confirmation link might not seem much, but when you multiply by every person every month it is. I suspect it would be more work than just fixing problems as they are found, but I might be underestimating the amount of problems that will be found I guess.
Most importantly, I don’t want to risk people not participating because they don’t want to be spammed. An alternative solution to consider is redoing the map every year, but I still feel it’s unnecessary.
I feel like this is the first one I’m aware of that is directly user-editable, which increases the chance of staying up to date, especially if each point is marked with when it was last updated.
EDIT: Oh, it’s not possible to remove or edit markers, only to add them, unless you save the magic URL from when the marker was created, or possibly are some sort of admin or maybe pay money. :-(
For my own reference, the magic URL to delete or edit my marker is: https://www.zeemaps.com/edit/WCXZQ_0pN-M2vwfx4VBR-g (I see no harm in making this public, since anybody can create an unauthenticated marker with my name on it in any case.)
I like these things, and I’ve added myself, but… there’ve been similar ones in the past, they don’t stay up to date. I feel like without some way for users to know, six months from now, that the information they’re looking at is still accurate, any given iteration is never going to be very useful for long.
An idea that’s floating around in my head, I think I’ve mentioned it before, is that a service like this could require everyone to occasionally confirm that they’re still in the same place. Send out an email once a month, they can click a link or reply to remain on the map, or ignore it to be removed.
I would expect that people move so rarely that the information would remain mostly up to date for years or even decades. Am I wrong?
I can also add a comment somewhere telling people to notify me if they tried to reach someone and failed. In that case I would try to contact the person to see what’s up and, failing that, remove the marker myself.
I’ve added a marker but wonder whether this has long-term possibilities. It seems not many people have added markers yet (although this may relate to the readership of open threads).
Regarding physical movement, it seems to me that lots of LWers are relatively mobile, even measured on scale of years. examples: high school students who travel to university or elsewhere for work reasons; university students who finish & get employment elsewhere; postgraduate students, contract researchers, academics. Also seems like there are plenty of people willing to consider alternative locations based on future opportunities.
My concerns are not just related to physical movement but also virtual movement—think of the number of members who were active here even 2-3 years ago but are no longer involved. Or just how short-lasting many free email addresses are. Offering to actively manage the map is thoughtful but what if you decide to move on from LW? Particularly as you are a relatively recent joiner, how much confidence should we have that you will be around to manage the location map in future?
All that said, I might PM a member from looking at the map if I happen to be visiting their location … assuming their posting history suggests it might be worthwhile.
You guys worry too much :)
Personally, I’d be happy to meet someone who has read LW even if they aren’t around the community anymore, so I don’t get what the concern is. The map may have “LessWrong” in the title, but it’s really about meeting interesting people.
I’m actually not new—this is just a new account. I don’t see myself leaving LessWrong anytime soon. Regardless, if I disappear I don’t see why someone else can’t take over. I just changed the security settings to allow for anyone to export the data. Gram_Stone suggested circulating the map around survey time. I think that would be a good, predictable time to update people on the state of the map, including notifying them of a possible change of hands.
Even if people don’t move much, they might leave the community, or remain in the community but stop checking LW so that they look like they’ve left.
But it’s not just about whether or not it does stay accurate, it’s also about whether people perceive it to be accurate. If someone expects it to be out of date, they might not even bother trying. I (and I think a bunch of other people) find it somewhat aversive to contact a complete stranger with a request, even if that person has said it’s totally okay to contact them with those requests, and it gets worse if they said it six months ago and might have retracted the offer.
(Related, if I did contact someone and got no reply, I would then find it somewhat aversive to contact you and let you know about it. I might also forget to do that, it’s difficult to trigger off of not getting a reply to an email. And then I’d have to wonder if you’re still active...)
Incidentally, I looked for a previous iteration so we could see empirically whether or not it’s still accurate, but I can’t find it. LW uses the word “map” a lot. I did find a couchsurfing group that no longer seems to exist.
Regardless of how true what you’re saying is, it all sounds like very weak reasons not to try. Some people find aversive to contact an stranger? Whatever, some don’t. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of people who won’t hesitate in seizing an opportunity to meet a fellow LWer, especially if they live in less developed places where meeting interesting people is really hard.
A monthly mail confirmation sounds like more trouble than it’s worth, and people might be put off by the spammy nature of it. I think fixing the map as people report problems is a better approach.
Honestly, your complaints sound like those of someone who already can meet interesting people and has little need for the map in the first place. I’m sure those who really need it won’t have any problems with it. The map doesn’t have to be perfect to be useful.
I’m interested in seeing how previous attempts went however. If you recall any others don’t hesitate to tell me.
I agree, these aren’t good reasons not to try.
When you say more trouble than it’s worth, do you mean for you or for people on the map? I wasn’t saying “you should do this”, I was going for “it might be neat if someone wrote software to do this”. I agree that doing it manually would be a pain in the ass, and would be somewhat spammy because people didn’t opt in for that when they added themselves.
I mean in general. Clicking a confirmation link might not seem much, but when you multiply by every person every month it is. I suspect it would be more work than just fixing problems as they are found, but I might be underestimating the amount of problems that will be found I guess.
Most importantly, I don’t want to risk people not participating because they don’t want to be spammed. An alternative solution to consider is redoing the map every year, but I still feel it’s unnecessary.
I feel like this is the first one I’m aware of that is directly user-editable, which increases the chance of staying up to date, especially if each point is marked with when it was last updated.
EDIT: Oh, it’s not possible to remove or edit markers, only to add them, unless you save the magic URL from when the marker was created, or possibly are some sort of admin or maybe pay money. :-(
For my own reference, the magic URL to delete or edit my marker is: https://www.zeemaps.com/edit/WCXZQ_0pN-M2vwfx4VBR-g (I see no harm in making this public, since anybody can create an unauthenticated marker with my name on it in any case.)
Just contact me if you lose your URL. I’ll delete the marker and you can make a new one.