See, most people view “shortage of space” and “global warming” and “lack of resources” as bad because it leads to people’s quality of life decreasing, and people even potentially losing their lives.
You, on the other hand, seem to be seeing 99% of humanity suffering and/or losing their lifes as good because it would cause less shortage of space, and less global warming.
Given such reasoning I don’t know why you see global warming as bad in the first place. Global warming won’t manage to kill nearly as much as 99% of humanity, after all: and yet you seem to think it a worse problem than a thermonuclear war that will.
Are you just trolling? Or are you so confused that you mix up your terminal goals with your instrumental goals on such an extent that is hardly ever seen?
You, on the other hand, seem to be seeing 99% of humanity suffering and/or losing their lifes as good because it would cause less shortage of space, and less global warming.
No, I don’t see it as good, I guess I was misunderstood.
I’m considering two alternative scenarios:
1) Nuclear war and hypothetically huge climate problems.
2) No nuclear war and hypothetically huge climate problems.
Everyone here seems to automatically see scenario 1 as worse than scenario 2. But I have the impression that this is mostly a cached thought. Did people really think it through, compare the scenarios?
A lot of comments here pointed out that the climate problems of 1 would be terrible. The thing is though, what are the climate problems of scenario 2? Both of them are unknowns, we don’t know for sure.
Scenario 2 is the status quo scenario, just let the world run as it is, it certainly will be better than the so-terrible scenario 1. Maybe it will, maybe not.
Global warming won’t manage to kill nearly as much as 99% of humanity, after all: and yet you seem to think it
Why not? How do you know this? AFAIK once there is a global warming chain reaction it may well be the end of all forests the Amazon including and the end of most agriculture. What are we going to eat afterwards?
I’m not claiming that 1 would be better, I’m just questioning the reasoning of choosing 2 over 1 without providing the burden of proof.
At the end it boils down to the basic question of rationality: How do you know what you know?
AFAIK once there is a global warming chain reaction it may well be the end of all forests, the Amazon including and the end of most agriculture.
I can see how the tropical forests may become tropical deserts, but I don’t see why now-frozen huge territories in Canada and Siberia won’t become available for agriculture as temperatures rise.
What are we going to eat afterwards?
Worst case scenario: We can devour the flesh of 90% of humanity, and we’d still be 9% better than in the thermonuclear war scenario you mentioned.
I’m not claiming that 1 would be better, I’m just questioning the reasoning choosing 2 over 1 without providing the burden of proof.
When scenario 1 begins with the death of 99% of humanity, and scenario 2 does not begin with any deaths, I think the burden of proof is on you to explain how the hypothetical dangers of scenario 2 could possibly be worse than the given deaths of scenario 1…
Of course scenario 1 is not automatically better than scenario 2. But as the only difference between them as defined is that scenario 1 involves nuclear war and climate problems, I think ArisKatsaris is right in sticking you with the burden of proof.
Our agricultural methods are going to have to change substantially within the next few decades whether we face a warming catastrophe or not, since global agricultural productivity is on a downtrend due to desertification and loss of arable soil as global food needs rise.
Of course, we’ve jacked up the carrying capacity of the earth several times before, and it’s certainly possible to do it again. Like many problems, this would be easy to address if we had access to a superabundance of energy, so any major advancements on that front in the near term would make it possible to avert catastrophe.
See, most people view “shortage of space” and “global warming” and “lack of resources” as bad because it leads to people’s quality of life decreasing, and people even potentially losing their lives.
You, on the other hand, seem to be seeing 99% of humanity suffering and/or losing their lifes as good because it would cause less shortage of space, and less global warming.
Given such reasoning I don’t know why you see global warming as bad in the first place. Global warming won’t manage to kill nearly as much as 99% of humanity, after all: and yet you seem to think it a worse problem than a thermonuclear war that will.
Are you just trolling? Or are you so confused that you mix up your terminal goals with your instrumental goals on such an extent that is hardly ever seen?
No, I don’t see it as good, I guess I was misunderstood.
I’m considering two alternative scenarios:
1) Nuclear war and hypothetically huge climate problems.
2) No nuclear war and hypothetically huge climate problems.
Everyone here seems to automatically see scenario 1 as worse than scenario 2. But I have the impression that this is mostly a cached thought. Did people really think it through, compare the scenarios?
A lot of comments here pointed out that the climate problems of 1 would be terrible. The thing is though, what are the climate problems of scenario 2? Both of them are unknowns, we don’t know for sure.
Scenario 2 is the status quo scenario, just let the world run as it is, it certainly will be better than the so-terrible scenario 1. Maybe it will, maybe not.
Why not? How do you know this? AFAIK once there is a global warming chain reaction it may well be the end of all forests the Amazon including and the end of most agriculture. What are we going to eat afterwards?
I’m not claiming that 1 would be better, I’m just questioning the reasoning of choosing 2 over 1 without providing the burden of proof.
At the end it boils down to the basic question of rationality: How do you know what you know?
I can see how the tropical forests may become tropical deserts, but I don’t see why now-frozen huge territories in Canada and Siberia won’t become available for agriculture as temperatures rise.
Worst case scenario: We can devour the flesh of 90% of humanity, and we’d still be 9% better than in the thermonuclear war scenario you mentioned.
When scenario 1 begins with the death of 99% of humanity, and scenario 2 does not begin with any deaths, I think the burden of proof is on you to explain how the hypothetical dangers of scenario 2 could possibly be worse than the given deaths of scenario 1…
Voted up for thinking numerately.
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts.
Of course scenario 1 is not automatically better than scenario 2. But as the only difference between them as defined is that scenario 1 involves nuclear war and climate problems, I think ArisKatsaris is right in sticking you with the burden of proof.
Our agricultural methods are going to have to change substantially within the next few decades whether we face a warming catastrophe or not, since global agricultural productivity is on a downtrend due to desertification and loss of arable soil as global food needs rise.
Of course, we’ve jacked up the carrying capacity of the earth several times before, and it’s certainly possible to do it again. Like many problems, this would be easy to address if we had access to a superabundance of energy, so any major advancements on that front in the near term would make it possible to avert catastrophe.
Voted down for incivility.