You asked for examples of predictions about the world that can be made based on understanding physics minus the math. It would be disingenuous in the extreme to then dismiss all examples of predictions about the world given because they are, in fact, mere predictions about the world and therefore could have been memorized without real understanding.
However, there is indeed a difference between rules memorized in isolation without any additional understanding and, on the other hand, real understanding of physical theories and generating predictions based on them. Just like there’s a difference between understanding electromagnetic theory and knowing a few common-knowledge technical facts on how to deal with electrical devices, there is also a difference between understanding relativity and knowing a few facts that follow from it in isolation.
You are now employing a rhetorical tactic where you try to make this obvious and relevant point look like weaseling, but in reality it is a pertinent and adequate response to your example.
In the various responses you have been given your claim that you can’t have any understanding of physics without math has been overwhelmingly refuted. All you are left with is “But that understanding isn’t true understanding, true understanding means you remember the math!” To that I reply “No, not all Scotsmen like haggis. You can only tell a true Scotsman by the kilt they are wearing!”
This is sheer rhetoric. You latch onto one point I made, completely ignoring the context and making the most extreme uncharitable interpretation of it (one that is in fact bordering on caricature), all for the greatest rhetorical effect. Instead, a rational approach would be to see if there may be some validity behind my point even if its original statement was imprecise, especially since I readily admitted this imprecision on first objection. Not to mention that your own example is largely irrelevant in the original context, which was about lengthy pop-science works purporting to explain whole physical theories to lay audiences, not about isolated examples such as yours.
In any case, if you think the distinction I outlined above is invalid, or that I am applying it incorrectly, please go ahead and explain why you believe that. If you’re going to latch onto a caricature of what I wrote while treating the discussion as a rhetorical context, I have no further interest in continuing this exchange.
I think it might be helpful for you to taboo the word “real understanding”. It seems like a lot of the disagreement stems from luke and wedrifid being unable to understand what you mean when you use that phrase. To be honest, while I agree with many of your points, I also don’t think I understand what “real understanding” is supposed to mean. Perhaps you could restate your original point without use of the word “understanding”?
I think it might be helpful for you to taboo the word “real understanding”.
Even understanding isn’t well-defined. I at least don’t know of any agreed upon conceptual or mathematical definition. Does Wolfram Alpha understand math? Does a lookup table understand anything?
I think that you really understand a subject if you are able to transfer, teach and artificially recreate the skill or heuristic that is necessary to make useful predictions about the subject. The skill or heuristic needs to be utilizable given limited resources. You also have to be able to abstract and generalize your knowledge about the subject to solve new problems that are not similar to problems previously encountered. Furthermore, you have to be able to prove fundamental mathematical statements and relationships about the subject.
An example would be the ability to teach the game of Go to other agents, transfer your knowledge by writing books on how to play it, and create a Go AI that can play the game by predicting the success of its strategies.
However, there is indeed a difference between rules memorized in isolation without any additional understanding and, on the other hand, real understanding of physical theories and generating predictions based on them. Just like there’s a difference between understanding electromagnetic theory and knowing a few common-knowledge technical facts on how to deal with electrical devices, there is also a difference between understanding relativity and knowing a few facts that follow from it in isolation.
You are now employing a rhetorical tactic where you try to make this obvious and relevant point look like weaseling, but in reality it is a pertinent and adequate response to your example.
This is sheer rhetoric. You latch onto one point I made, completely ignoring the context and making the most extreme uncharitable interpretation of it (one that is in fact bordering on caricature), all for the greatest rhetorical effect. Instead, a rational approach would be to see if there may be some validity behind my point even if its original statement was imprecise, especially since I readily admitted this imprecision on first objection. Not to mention that your own example is largely irrelevant in the original context, which was about lengthy pop-science works purporting to explain whole physical theories to lay audiences, not about isolated examples such as yours.
In any case, if you think the distinction I outlined above is invalid, or that I am applying it incorrectly, please go ahead and explain why you believe that. If you’re going to latch onto a caricature of what I wrote while treating the discussion as a rhetorical context, I have no further interest in continuing this exchange.
I think it might be helpful for you to taboo the word “real understanding”. It seems like a lot of the disagreement stems from luke and wedrifid being unable to understand what you mean when you use that phrase. To be honest, while I agree with many of your points, I also don’t think I understand what “real understanding” is supposed to mean. Perhaps you could restate your original point without use of the word “understanding”?
Even understanding isn’t well-defined. I at least don’t know of any agreed upon conceptual or mathematical definition. Does Wolfram Alpha understand math? Does a lookup table understand anything?
I think that you really understand a subject if you are able to transfer, teach and artificially recreate the skill or heuristic that is necessary to make useful predictions about the subject. The skill or heuristic needs to be utilizable given limited resources. You also have to be able to abstract and generalize your knowledge about the subject to solve new problems that are not similar to problems previously encountered. Furthermore, you have to be able to prove fundamental mathematical statements and relationships about the subject.
An example would be the ability to teach the game of Go to other agents, transfer your knowledge by writing books on how to play it, and create a Go AI that can play the game by predicting the success of its strategies.