It’s a little strange that I have to set up the first data point when I register the goal. I’d rather set up the goal, then do the first day’s work. I suppose this is splitting hairs.
Both goals have perfectly tight roads. Is this correct? I would like to give myself some variance, since I’ll probably not ever do exactly 180 minutes in a day. To start, I fudged the first day’s value at the goal value.
Based on how you describe the system, it looks like I should expect to pay $5 if I practice 179 minutes.
How do I delete a goal if I screw it up in some way?
Is the goal value a median or is it a target?
I would like the ability to expressly exclude days at a certain rate. Like “I will practice ear training approximately X minutes per day, 5 out of 7 days a week.”
Is there a ‘vacation’ feature? If I’m on a holiday, I might not be able to maintain certain goals. I would expect vacations to have to be declared in advance, though, to prevent someone from using it as a method of worming out of an impending failure.
I really like that you are iterating on your concept publicly. This is the way to go. I hope you are able to move towards success. Are you tracking your software development goals in the same software?
An exponential punishment curve seems harsh. Is the concern that a linear rate of punishment might lead to basically buying indulgences? I would think that even linear curves at good rates would create incentive.
The data tracking features are interesting to me and one reason I might try this. Is there a way to export the data? If I did use this, then it would be cool to import the data into a practice log. AHA. Found the export button!
Some goals might contain periodic sub-goals. For example, a musical practice goal might include X days of “spend % of this time on speed improvement” this is an idea for a future feature. These could spin off to become their own goal graphs if the user wanted, otherwise they are simply children of the main goal.
Giving yourself variance: Yes. It should become obvious as you add datapoints. The real nitty gritty about the width of the yellow brick road is here: http://blog.beeminder.com/roadwidth (In short: The width of the road is constructed so that if you’re in the correct lane today then you’re guaranteed not to lose tomorrow.)
Paying $5: Note that the first attempt is free. You only put money at risk if you go off the road and want to reset. Gory details at http://beeminder.com/money (note especially the part about the exponential fee schedule).
How do I delete a goal if I screw it up in some way?
We’ve hesitated to expose that option since we’re not sure how to handle the case of someone deleting a goal they have a contract on. The option does appear if you delete the only datapoint though.
Is the goal value a median or is it a target?
The goal value is the y-value of the end of your yellow brick road. For weight loss it’s obvious—your goal weight. But for many kinds of goals, like “work out 20 minutes a day” for which the y-axis is the total (cumulative) amount reported, the goal value is probably not what you care about. This is confusing and we’re scrambling to find a way to make it less so.
I would like the ability to expressly exclude days at a certain rate. Like “I will practice ear training approximately X minutes per day, 5 out of 7 days a week.”
That works beautifully with beeminder! Just specify your rate as 5*X per week.
Is there a ‘vacation’ feature? If I’m on a holiday, I might not be able to maintain certain goals. I would expect vacations to have to be declared in advance, though, to prevent someone from using it as a method of worming out of an impending failure.
Well said. And yes, just use the road dial below your graph to flatten your road for the vacation. If it’s a weight loss goal and you’re going on an all-you-can-eat-buffet-hopping vacation, you can even make the road slope up for a while. Always with that one-week delay of course.
Are you tracking your software development goals in the same software?
An exponential punishment curve seems harsh. Is the concern that a linear rate of punishment might lead to basically buying indulgences? I would think that even linear curves at good rates would create incentive.
I think harshness/mildness is the wrong question here. It’s just trying to help you find the order of magnitude that the punishment needs to be to get you to treat it as a hard commitment. In some sense the steeper the curve the less harsh since it means wasting less money on punishments that were insufficiently punishing before hitting your Motivation Point. We went with, roughly, 3^x.
The data tracking features are interesting to me and one reason I might try this. Is there a way to export the data?
You answered this one yourself, but, yes, we’re fellow data nerds and we want import/export to always be easy.
Some goals might contain periodic sub-goals...
Oh my, that sounds like a terrible, terrible idea! :) Very likely my lack of imagination though. Want to add it on http://uservoice.beeminder.com and see if it gets any upvotes?
Just remember Antoine de Saint-Exupery: “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
Thanks so much for asking these questions. One of our biggest problems right now is conveying how this all works to someone just dropping in, so answering these helps us a lot.
I rebuilt my guitar thing and added today’s datapoint and now it seems to be predicting my path properly. Makes more sense now. I think I was confused at first because I had made a custom graph instead of using the “Do More” prefab.
It’s a little strange that I have to set up the first data point when I register the goal. I’d rather set up the goal, then do the first day’s work. I suppose this is splitting hairs.
I created two goals:
https://www.beeminder.com/greenmarine
Both goals have perfectly tight roads. Is this correct? I would like to give myself some variance, since I’ll probably not ever do exactly 180 minutes in a day. To start, I fudged the first day’s value at the goal value.
Based on how you describe the system, it looks like I should expect to pay $5 if I practice 179 minutes.
How do I delete a goal if I screw it up in some way?
Is the goal value a median or is it a target?
I would like the ability to expressly exclude days at a certain rate. Like “I will practice ear training approximately X minutes per day, 5 out of 7 days a week.”
Is there a ‘vacation’ feature? If I’m on a holiday, I might not be able to maintain certain goals. I would expect vacations to have to be declared in advance, though, to prevent someone from using it as a method of worming out of an impending failure.
I really like that you are iterating on your concept publicly. This is the way to go. I hope you are able to move towards success. Are you tracking your software development goals in the same software?
An exponential punishment curve seems harsh. Is the concern that a linear rate of punishment might lead to basically buying indulgences? I would think that even linear curves at good rates would create incentive.
The data tracking features are interesting to me and one reason I might try this. Is there a way to export the data? If I did use this, then it would be cool to import the data into a practice log. AHA. Found the export button!
Some goals might contain periodic sub-goals. For example, a musical practice goal might include X days of “spend % of this time on speed improvement” this is an idea for a future feature. These could spin off to become their own goal graphs if the user wanted, otherwise they are simply children of the main goal.
Great questions! Here are answers!
Giving yourself variance: Yes. It should become obvious as you add datapoints. The real nitty gritty about the width of the yellow brick road is here: http://blog.beeminder.com/roadwidth (In short: The width of the road is constructed so that if you’re in the correct lane today then you’re guaranteed not to lose tomorrow.)
Paying $5: Note that the first attempt is free. You only put money at risk if you go off the road and want to reset. Gory details at http://beeminder.com/money (note especially the part about the exponential fee schedule).
We’ve hesitated to expose that option since we’re not sure how to handle the case of someone deleting a goal they have a contract on. The option does appear if you delete the only datapoint though.
The goal value is the y-value of the end of your yellow brick road. For weight loss it’s obvious—your goal weight. But for many kinds of goals, like “work out 20 minutes a day” for which the y-axis is the total (cumulative) amount reported, the goal value is probably not what you care about. This is confusing and we’re scrambling to find a way to make it less so.
That works beautifully with beeminder! Just specify your rate as 5*X per week.
Well said. And yes, just use the road dial below your graph to flatten your road for the vacation. If it’s a weight loss goal and you’re going on an all-you-can-eat-buffet-hopping vacation, you can even make the road slope up for a while. Always with that one-week delay of course.
Damn straight: http://beeminder.com/meta
I think harshness/mildness is the wrong question here. It’s just trying to help you find the order of magnitude that the punishment needs to be to get you to treat it as a hard commitment. In some sense the steeper the curve the less harsh since it means wasting less money on punishments that were insufficiently punishing before hitting your Motivation Point. We went with, roughly, 3^x.
You answered this one yourself, but, yes, we’re fellow data nerds and we want import/export to always be easy.
Oh my, that sounds like a terrible, terrible idea! :) Very likely my lack of imagination though. Want to add it on http://uservoice.beeminder.com and see if it gets any upvotes?
Just remember Antoine de Saint-Exupery: “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
Thanks so much for asking these questions. One of our biggest problems right now is conveying how this all works to someone just dropping in, so answering these helps us a lot.
PS: Anyone who read all this might also find our commitment contract template interesting: http://beeminder.com/contract
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I rebuilt my guitar thing and added today’s datapoint and now it seems to be predicting my path properly. Makes more sense now. I think I was confused at first because I had made a custom graph instead of using the “Do More” prefab.
Neat software!