Because you’re making decisions for them. In particular, ”...is not worthwhile: it might be better for women if you simply have no non-marital sex at all”.
Besides, it’s funny how in the scenario where two people got drunk and woke up in one bed in the morning, one of them (hint: the one who has agency) is the rapist and the other (hint: the one without agency) is the victim.
I am not making decisions for them. You might be mistaken about the best route to work in the morning. That does not mean that you are not an agent or that you do not decide which route to take, or that I am “making decisions for you” if I notice that you are mistaken.
I am not the one who decided who is called a rapist in your scenario; in fact, I suggested (even if it was between the lines) that the term “rape” in that scenario does not fit very well at all.
In this case I don’t understand what do you mean when you say “it might be better for women”.
You might be mistaken about the best route to work in the morning
Yes, and when someone says “it might be better for all commuters to just take public transportation”, the implication is that each commuter is incapable of making his own choices “correctly” and that taking the ability to make the choice away from her would be of net benefit to the society.
But if you want I can replace the word “agency” with another word: “freedom”.
I am not the one who decided who is called a rapist in your scenario
Your whole line of argument is built around the asymmetry between men and women.
“It might be better for women” in the same sense that “it might be better for you” to take a different route in the morning.
And no, that doesn’t mean that anyone in particular is incapable of making their choices correctly. It does mean that some people make mistakes sometimes, and that is a thing that happens. But there is nothing impossible about the situation where a custom of using only public transportation would be better for society overall: if that were true, it surely does not mean anyone is not an agent.
There are many asymmetries between men and women. But both of them are agents, and that has nothing to do with calling anyone a rapist.
It means that taking the agency away would be a good thing (net benefit to the society).
But let’s get explicit. Are you saying that—if it were possible—forbidding premarital (and extra-marital, presumably) sex would be a good thing? And that if you had a button to push which would make it so, you would push that button?
First of all, the existence of a social norm is different from a law, and we were discussing the former, not the latter. It’s true that if you have reason for a social norm, you might have reason for a law. But it may be that the norm would be overall beneficial, and the law overall harmful.
If having a norm or a law against something means that people are not agents, then people are not agents because there is a law against murder. So obviously that does not follow. If you want to call that “taking away agency,” you can, but people are still agents.
Are you saying that society would be better off overall without any norms or laws? And would you push a button to bring about that state of affairs?
To push the button in your scenario I would have to be very certain that it would be beneficial overall, including the fact that I was pushing a button like that. I am not that certain, so I would not push it.
Because you’re making decisions for them. In particular, ”...is not worthwhile: it might be better for women if you simply have no non-marital sex at all”.
Besides, it’s funny how in the scenario where two people got drunk and woke up in one bed in the morning, one of them (hint: the one who has agency) is the rapist and the other (hint: the one without agency) is the victim.
I am not making decisions for them. You might be mistaken about the best route to work in the morning. That does not mean that you are not an agent or that you do not decide which route to take, or that I am “making decisions for you” if I notice that you are mistaken.
I am not the one who decided who is called a rapist in your scenario; in fact, I suggested (even if it was between the lines) that the term “rape” in that scenario does not fit very well at all.
In this case I don’t understand what do you mean when you say “it might be better for women”.
Yes, and when someone says “it might be better for all commuters to just take public transportation”, the implication is that each commuter is incapable of making his own choices “correctly” and that taking the ability to make the choice away from her would be of net benefit to the society.
But if you want I can replace the word “agency” with another word: “freedom”.
Your whole line of argument is built around the asymmetry between men and women.
“It might be better for women” in the same sense that “it might be better for you” to take a different route in the morning.
And no, that doesn’t mean that anyone in particular is incapable of making their choices correctly. It does mean that some people make mistakes sometimes, and that is a thing that happens. But there is nothing impossible about the situation where a custom of using only public transportation would be better for society overall: if that were true, it surely does not mean anyone is not an agent.
There are many asymmetries between men and women. But both of them are agents, and that has nothing to do with calling anyone a rapist.
It means that taking the agency away would be a good thing (net benefit to the society).
But let’s get explicit. Are you saying that—if it were possible—forbidding premarital (and extra-marital, presumably) sex would be a good thing? And that if you had a button to push which would make it so, you would push that button?
First of all, the existence of a social norm is different from a law, and we were discussing the former, not the latter. It’s true that if you have reason for a social norm, you might have reason for a law. But it may be that the norm would be overall beneficial, and the law overall harmful.
If having a norm or a law against something means that people are not agents, then people are not agents because there is a law against murder. So obviously that does not follow. If you want to call that “taking away agency,” you can, but people are still agents.
Are you saying that society would be better off overall without any norms or laws? And would you push a button to bring about that state of affairs?
To push the button in your scenario I would have to be very certain that it would be beneficial overall, including the fact that I was pushing a button like that. I am not that certain, so I would not push it.