She said that the research was replicated many times, and that no matter which country, or which year—or even which definition of domestic violence was used! -- the results are always 20%.
I guess lying is one option, believing a liar is another option, and… well, are there any realistic options beyond that? (Maybe something in between, like suspecting an information, but deciding to suppress the feeling in the name of the greater good and being on the right side of history.)
But how do I distinguish between these two options, in real time? Ask “hey, lady, it occured to be that you are either lying or stupid—and because I don’t want to uncharitably accuse you of something that you are not, could you please help me solve this dilemma?” I don’t suppose that would work.
I tried communicating with mindkilled people in the past, it didn’t go well. (I get accused of something; they congratulate themselves for disarming an evil person.) Now I usually suppress the urge.
If there is a forum where people could rationally communicate this kind of concerns, I don’t know about it. Christina Hoff Sommers try to address the problem of fake statistics in her book, in return she got her Wikipedia page vandalized. I don’t expect to do better.
I guess lying is one option, believing a liar is another option, and… well, are there any realistic options beyond that?
Sure. There is a very popular option of “I will look only here, I will not look there and even if I accidentally glance over there, I will quickly avert my gaze and feel guilty about my transgression”.
Deliberate ignorance combined with cherry-picking evidence can get you very very far.
But how do I distinguish between these two options, in real time?
If only there were some way to think about the two options in something like probabilities… :-)
I tried communicating with mindkilled people in the past, it didn’t go well.
You mean to tried to deconvert them? No surprise it didn’t go well.
Note that the aims of the conversation can be quite limited, though. It’s up to you to define your goals and they don’t have to be “convince that person that her belief is wrong”.
I tried communicating with mindkilled people in the past, it didn’t go well. (I get accused of something; they congratulate themselves for disarming an evil person.) Now I usually suppress the urge.
I don’t think she’s mindkilled. Basically in this case you both haven’t read the literature but she’s in a position where she’s not willing to admit to ot having read the research because that means she would lose status.
A good question might be: “Then how does it come that Louis Harris et al only found 2% of woman to have been raped?”
If there is a forum where people could rationally communicate this kind of concerns, I don’t know about it.
Skeptics.Stackexchange is a good forum for this purpose. I think it makes sense to open questions there whenever I can boil down the claim to a specific form.
“She said that the research was replicated many times, and that no matter which country, or which year—or even which definition of domestic violence was used! -- the results are always 20%”—that’s doesn’t sound like a vague assumption to me. That sounds like she’s being very specific.
I guess you can call it lying if you want, but that is a thing people do very frequently without thinking about or considering that they are lying, namely making very precise statements when in fact there is something vague in their minds.
Did it occur to you that she was just lying?
I guess lying is one option, believing a liar is another option, and… well, are there any realistic options beyond that? (Maybe something in between, like suspecting an information, but deciding to suppress the feeling in the name of the greater good and being on the right side of history.)
But how do I distinguish between these two options, in real time? Ask “hey, lady, it occured to be that you are either lying or stupid—and because I don’t want to uncharitably accuse you of something that you are not, could you please help me solve this dilemma?” I don’t suppose that would work.
I tried communicating with mindkilled people in the past, it didn’t go well. (I get accused of something; they congratulate themselves for disarming an evil person.) Now I usually suppress the urge.
If there is a forum where people could rationally communicate this kind of concerns, I don’t know about it. Christina Hoff Sommers try to address the problem of fake statistics in her book, in return she got her Wikipedia page vandalized. I don’t expect to do better.
Sure. There is a very popular option of “I will look only here, I will not look there and even if I accidentally glance over there, I will quickly avert my gaze and feel guilty about my transgression”.
Deliberate ignorance combined with cherry-picking evidence can get you very very far.
If only there were some way to think about the two options in something like probabilities… :-)
You mean to tried to deconvert them? No surprise it didn’t go well.
Note that the aims of the conversation can be quite limited, though. It’s up to you to define your goals and they don’t have to be “convince that person that her belief is wrong”.
I don’t think she’s mindkilled. Basically in this case you both haven’t read the literature but she’s in a position where she’s not willing to admit to ot having read the research because that means she would lose status.
A good question might be: “Then how does it come that Louis Harris et al only found 2% of woman to have been raped?”
Skeptics.Stackexchange is a good forum for this purpose. I think it makes sense to open questions there whenever I can boil down the claim to a specific form.
My question Is a woman who dresses sexually suggestively more likely to get raped? for example also produced good answers.
It’s just as likely that she heard that statistic many times and assumed that this must be because there were many studies with that result.
“She said that the research was replicated many times, and that no matter which country, or which year—or even which definition of domestic violence was used! -- the results are always 20%”—that’s doesn’t sound like a vague assumption to me. That sounds like she’s being very specific.
I guess you can call it lying if you want, but that is a thing people do very frequently without thinking about or considering that they are lying, namely making very precise statements when in fact there is something vague in their minds.
People lie (defined as intent to mislead) frequently, yes :-/