Would you be willing to describe the effect that had on you? If I had to guess, I’d guess that you ended up needing such praise to feel good about yourself, and that you ended up needing to live up to that praise. But it would help my understanding to read a true story.
I am also still working to overcome the consequences of my parents, other adults, and peers constantly telling me (up through high school) that I was so very smart. The effect is compounded when one grows up in a small American town in the south. It was not at all unusual for a high school peer to believe that because I skipped a grade in junior high school and was graduating high school a year early, that I was somehow on the path to curing cancer or destined for a Nobel Prize. The sanity waterline still has much room for improvement.
What ended up happening was that I was forced to transfer—and forgo a full scholarship—after a semester at a top-15 university (by US News and World Report). I realized there that I simply did not know how to study efficiently, or even at all. Essentially, early association of approval and accomplishments to innate talent led me to disregard the value of hard work and determination.
Another consequence is, of course, having an overblown sense of superiority. At many good, but not necessarily elite, universities, quite a few freshmen come in who were top of their class in high school and have to adjust to being in the middle of the pack.
I didn’t learn how to form any study habits in college, and it really hurt me in graduate school. It concerns my development as a kid because I was unfortunate enough to graduate at 16. I tricked my parents and myself by telling them I was “studying” all the time on the computer, even though I was mostly recreationally programming and internet browsing, which I viewed as superior to studying. Most undergraduate work is rote and unchallenging, so I would usually procrastinate to the last moment without much detriment to my grades. Being much younger than my classmates means I didn’t have any peer guidance in the formation of study habits, either.
Such is the woe of “child prodigies.” Some students that zip through school have high intelligence and rationality (and extremely careful parents), and these usually earn a spot in history books.
I was never a child prodigy, but I took myself to be the smartest student in my junior high school class of 25 or so. Maybe I was, but if so it wasn’t by a huge margin. But I had some mildly precocious interests and was overpraised. I decided it was the natural order of life that I would always be able to coast by without effort and would always be the smartest guy in the room. In other words, I bound up my self esteem to my supposed intellectual superiority, and I had learned to be lazy. This is a very, very bad combination. My parents went to considerable trouble to send me to a high school with an excellent academic reputation. When I found out I wasn’t really all that relatively smart any more, my ego took a hit. Merely average grades were terrifying, a sign of failure. At the same time, having to work hard to get good grades seemed like a sign of failure, too. I felt like Charlie in the second half of Flowers for Algernon. I became far, far too overcautious, too ready to quit at the first hint of trouble. In LessWrong terms, I surrounded myself with ugh fields.
I see now that I was never really that smart. I wish I’d known that earlier. In the words of Jay Leno, “A little low self-esteem is actually quite good. Maybe you’re not the best, so you should work a little harder.”
I’m sometimes afraid that I’m in the middle of this process myself. I’m a high school student, and I’ve been told I was smart for as long as I can remember. I’ve never had to study to get good grades. I don’t know how much study is normal, but I suspect it’s more than I ever do. While I do study some I can’t really tell if it helps: I get As when I study, and I get slightly lower As when I don’t. I have a sense of superiority that I try to keep calibrated. I’m about to go to an elite college, where I will most likely be average and get average grades. I’m afraid that I won’t be able to handle the need to work hard and the experience of being in the middle of the pack, but I hope that expecting it will make it easier.
If I met you in person, I would probably be too embarrassed to say: don’t make my mistakes.
For what it’s worth, I suggest you first find something worth working hard on, and then work really, really hard on it. I’d further suggest that, even if you’re not quite sure that you’ve found the one true task that is your calling, maybe you should still take a bit of time busting your ass on whatever task may be in front of you. After a while, you could reasonably then step back and reflect on whether you’re using your talents wisely. Maybe you should then choose some other goal to bust your ass for. But don’t completely waste your time like I did.
I’ve seen some of your posts. I think you’re more talented than I ever was.* However, I also wouldn’t mean any offense by suggesting that you might not be quite as talented as Isaac Newton. The reason I bring it up is because I think everyone can agree that Isaac Newton had a lot of basic native talent, but also, he worked himself like a dog for years.
I offer this compliment through gritted teeth, but not with personal animosity. I envy you. I would give a lot to be as smart and as young as you. Too late for me, though. I really, really wish you the best. Don’t fuck it up.
My advice to anybody who says ‘I regret not doing X in the past, but it’s too late now’, is to reconsider very very carefully whether it is actually too late now, or whether you will in the future find yourself saying ‘I regret not doing X in the past because I thought it was too late; but now it’s really too late’.
I didn’t learn how to form any study habits in college, and it really hurt me in graduate school … Most undergraduate work is rote and unchallenging, so I would usually procrastinate to the last moment without much detriment to my grades.
That describes me pretty well too. Now I have yet another reason to stay out of graduate school! ;)
It wasn’t so much a need for praise, more a need to feel superior since I think I based my identity on being smarter than anybody else. And, as others have answered here, with that came a need to make my successes seem effortless so I too couldn’t form any habit of studying or even just thinking things through. Instead I formed a habit of jumping on to any first thought that would pop into my head and consider that to be correct until proven wrong beyond my capacity to rationalize. The third aspect is that I had a self image of having all the answers.
I think I’ve overcome all of these shortcomings to a point where they are no longer destructive. So even if we’ve been ruined as children we still have the ability to correct these mistakes as adults. Still, as ASpiringKnitter pointed out, to think where I could have been by now makes me sad.
Would you be willing to describe the effect that had on you? If I had to guess, I’d guess that you ended up needing such praise to feel good about yourself, and that you ended up needing to live up to that praise. But it would help my understanding to read a true story.
I am also still working to overcome the consequences of my parents, other adults, and peers constantly telling me (up through high school) that I was so very smart. The effect is compounded when one grows up in a small American town in the south. It was not at all unusual for a high school peer to believe that because I skipped a grade in junior high school and was graduating high school a year early, that I was somehow on the path to curing cancer or destined for a Nobel Prize. The sanity waterline still has much room for improvement.
What ended up happening was that I was forced to transfer—and forgo a full scholarship—after a semester at a top-15 university (by US News and World Report). I realized there that I simply did not know how to study efficiently, or even at all. Essentially, early association of approval and accomplishments to innate talent led me to disregard the value of hard work and determination.
Another consequence is, of course, having an overblown sense of superiority. At many good, but not necessarily elite, universities, quite a few freshmen come in who were top of their class in high school and have to adjust to being in the middle of the pack.
It had a similar effect on me.
I didn’t learn how to form any study habits in college, and it really hurt me in graduate school. It concerns my development as a kid because I was unfortunate enough to graduate at 16. I tricked my parents and myself by telling them I was “studying” all the time on the computer, even though I was mostly recreationally programming and internet browsing, which I viewed as superior to studying. Most undergraduate work is rote and unchallenging, so I would usually procrastinate to the last moment without much detriment to my grades. Being much younger than my classmates means I didn’t have any peer guidance in the formation of study habits, either.
Such is the woe of “child prodigies.” Some students that zip through school have high intelligence and rationality (and extremely careful parents), and these usually earn a spot in history books.
I was never a child prodigy, but I took myself to be the smartest student in my junior high school class of 25 or so. Maybe I was, but if so it wasn’t by a huge margin. But I had some mildly precocious interests and was overpraised. I decided it was the natural order of life that I would always be able to coast by without effort and would always be the smartest guy in the room. In other words, I bound up my self esteem to my supposed intellectual superiority, and I had learned to be lazy. This is a very, very bad combination. My parents went to considerable trouble to send me to a high school with an excellent academic reputation. When I found out I wasn’t really all that relatively smart any more, my ego took a hit. Merely average grades were terrifying, a sign of failure. At the same time, having to work hard to get good grades seemed like a sign of failure, too. I felt like Charlie in the second half of Flowers for Algernon. I became far, far too overcautious, too ready to quit at the first hint of trouble. In LessWrong terms, I surrounded myself with ugh fields.
I see now that I was never really that smart. I wish I’d known that earlier. In the words of Jay Leno, “A little low self-esteem is actually quite good. Maybe you’re not the best, so you should work a little harder.”
I’m sometimes afraid that I’m in the middle of this process myself. I’m a high school student, and I’ve been told I was smart for as long as I can remember. I’ve never had to study to get good grades. I don’t know how much study is normal, but I suspect it’s more than I ever do. While I do study some I can’t really tell if it helps: I get As when I study, and I get slightly lower As when I don’t. I have a sense of superiority that I try to keep calibrated. I’m about to go to an elite college, where I will most likely be average and get average grades. I’m afraid that I won’t be able to handle the need to work hard and the experience of being in the middle of the pack, but I hope that expecting it will make it easier.
If I met you in person, I would probably be too embarrassed to say: don’t make my mistakes.
For what it’s worth, I suggest you first find something worth working hard on, and then work really, really hard on it. I’d further suggest that, even if you’re not quite sure that you’ve found the one true task that is your calling, maybe you should still take a bit of time busting your ass on whatever task may be in front of you. After a while, you could reasonably then step back and reflect on whether you’re using your talents wisely. Maybe you should then choose some other goal to bust your ass for. But don’t completely waste your time like I did.
I’ve seen some of your posts. I think you’re more talented than I ever was.* However, I also wouldn’t mean any offense by suggesting that you might not be quite as talented as Isaac Newton. The reason I bring it up is because I think everyone can agree that Isaac Newton had a lot of basic native talent, but also, he worked himself like a dog for years.
I offer this compliment through gritted teeth, but not with personal animosity. I envy you. I would give a lot to be as smart and as young as you. Too late for me, though. I really, really wish you the best. Don’t fuck it up.
Thank you for the advice. I’ll follow it.
Consciousness of this is likely to help, I think.
I relate, but as a genius and getting decent (but not exceptional) results from no work. At least, in some areas.
It’s annoying. It’s especially annoying to think about how I could’ve been Eliezer but probably couldn’t now.
And that gives me an idea for tomorrow.
My advice to anybody who says ‘I regret not doing X in the past, but it’s too late now’, is to reconsider very very carefully whether it is actually too late now, or whether you will in the future find yourself saying ‘I regret not doing X in the past because I thought it was too late; but now it’s really too late’.
-- Anonymous
That describes me pretty well too. Now I have yet another reason to stay out of graduate school! ;)
It wasn’t so much a need for praise, more a need to feel superior since I think I based my identity on being smarter than anybody else. And, as others have answered here, with that came a need to make my successes seem effortless so I too couldn’t form any habit of studying or even just thinking things through. Instead I formed a habit of jumping on to any first thought that would pop into my head and consider that to be correct until proven wrong beyond my capacity to rationalize. The third aspect is that I had a self image of having all the answers.
I think I’ve overcome all of these shortcomings to a point where they are no longer destructive. So even if we’ve been ruined as children we still have the ability to correct these mistakes as adults. Still, as ASpiringKnitter pointed out, to think where I could have been by now makes me sad.