Probably not. He and I continue to dialogue in private about the point, in part to find the source of our disagreement.
So, if you disagree with Holden, I assume you think SIers have superior general rationality: why?
And I’m confident SIers will score well on rationality tests, but that looks like specialized rationality. I.e., you can avoid a bias but you can’t avoid a failure in your achieving your goals. To me, the SI approach seems poorly leveraged. I expect more significant returns from simple knowledge acquisition. E.g., you want to become successful? YOU WANT TO WIN?! Great, read these textbooks on microeconomics, finance, and business. I think this is more the approach you take anyway.
I believe everyone except Eliezer currently makes between $42k/yr and $48k/yr — pretty low for the cost of living in the Bay Area.
That isn’t as bad as I thinking it was; I don’t know if that’s optimal, but it seems at least reasonable.
I assume you think SIers have superior general rationality: why?
I’ll avoid double-labor on this and wait to reply until my conversation with Holden is done.
I expect more significant returns from simple knowledge acquisition. E.g., you want to become successful? …Great, read these textbooks on microeconomics, finance, and business. I think this is more the approach you take anyway.
Right. Exercise the neglected virtue of scholarship and all that.
It’s not that easy to dismiss; if it’s as poorly leveraged as it looks relative to other approaches then you have little reason to be spreading and teaching SI’s brand of specialized rationality (except for perhaps income).
Weird, I have this perception of SI being heavily invested in overcoming biases and epistemic rationality training to the detriment of relevant domain specific knowledge, but I guess that’s wrong?
I’m not dismissing it, I’m endorsing it and agreeing with you that it has been my approach ever since my first post on LW.
I wasn’t talking about you; I was talking about SI’s approach in spreading and training rationality. You(SI) have Yudkowsky writing books, you have rationality minicamps, you have lesswrong, you and others are writing rationality articles and researching the rationality literature, and so on.
That kind of rationality training, research, and message looks poorly leveraged in achieving your goals, is what I’m saying. Poorly leveraged for anyone trying to achieve goals. And at its most abstract, that’s what rationality is, right? Achieving your goals.
So, I don’t care if your approach was to acquire as much relevant knowledge as possible before dabbling in debiasing, bayes, and whatnot (i.e., prioritizing the most leveraged approach). I wondering why your approach doesn’t seem to be SI’s approach. I’m wondering why SI doesn’t prioritize rationality training, research, and message by whatever is the most leveraged in achieving SI’s goals. I’m wondering why SI doesn’t spread the virtue of scholarship to the detriment of training debiasing and so on.
SI wants to raise the sanity waterline, is what the SI doing even near optimal for that? Knowing what SIers knew and trained for couldn’t even get them to see an opportunity for trading in on opportunity cost for years; that is sad.
So, if you disagree with Holden, I assume you think SIers have superior general rationality: why?
And I’m confident SIers will score well on rationality tests, but that looks like specialized rationality. I.e., you can avoid a bias but you can’t avoid a failure in your achieving your goals. To me, the SI approach seems poorly leveraged. I expect more significant returns from simple knowledge acquisition. E.g., you want to become successful? YOU WANT TO WIN?! Great, read these textbooks on microeconomics, finance, and business. I think this is more the approach you take anyway.
That isn’t as bad as I thinking it was; I don’t know if that’s optimal, but it seems at least reasonable.
I’ll avoid double-labor on this and wait to reply until my conversation with Holden is done.
Right. Exercise the neglected virtue of scholarship and all that.
It’s not that easy to dismiss; if it’s as poorly leveraged as it looks relative to other approaches then you have little reason to be spreading and teaching SI’s brand of specialized rationality (except for perhaps income).
I’m not dismissing it, I’m endorsing it and agreeing with you that it has been my approach ever since my first post on LW.
Weird, I have this perception of SI being heavily invested in overcoming biases and epistemic rationality training to the detriment of relevant domain specific knowledge, but I guess that’s wrong?
I’m lost again; I don’t know what you’re saying.
I wasn’t talking about you; I was talking about SI’s approach in spreading and training rationality. You(SI) have Yudkowsky writing books, you have rationality minicamps, you have lesswrong, you and others are writing rationality articles and researching the rationality literature, and so on.
That kind of rationality training, research, and message looks poorly leveraged in achieving your goals, is what I’m saying. Poorly leveraged for anyone trying to achieve goals. And at its most abstract, that’s what rationality is, right? Achieving your goals.
So, I don’t care if your approach was to acquire as much relevant knowledge as possible before dabbling in debiasing, bayes, and whatnot (i.e., prioritizing the most leveraged approach). I wondering why your approach doesn’t seem to be SI’s approach. I’m wondering why SI doesn’t prioritize rationality training, research, and message by whatever is the most leveraged in achieving SI’s goals. I’m wondering why SI doesn’t spread the virtue of scholarship to the detriment of training debiasing and so on.
SI wants to raise the sanity waterline, is what the SI doing even near optimal for that? Knowing what SIers knew and trained for couldn’t even get them to see an opportunity for trading in on opportunity cost for years; that is sad.